Tutorial Seraphon List for GHB2020

[LizardWizard]

Im genuinely curious because I love the Terradon models but personally just cant justify them - What role do the Terradons play in your army that a buffed unit of 40 Skinks cant do? The points are the same, the damage seems almost the same (assuming 1 shooting round per turn, Parting Shot makes this significantly different) and the movement with run & shoot is pretty much the same. 40 Skinks just seem to offer a lot more consistent damage every turn, and also guards an objective a lot better in my eyes.

Im really not a fan of teleporting my Skinks too far. I went for the throat a couple of games but it didnt work out.. Massive misplay! It meant my 40 Skinks were stranded outside of the Skink Priest/Starpriest buff range, so when I lost the roll-off and my opponent noticed it, he gave me the turn and it meant my Skinks were now an entire turn + his turn with no buffs. 80 shots from non-buffed Skinks is almost not even worth rolling dice for, the output is that bad.

I agree with Terradon and Skinks doing roughly the same shooting for their points under buffs. It is part of why I like have Terradons. The objective holding is also an important consideration. Parting Shoot is where the Skinks pull ahead in straight damage. Terradons in my experience are better at dealing with heroes, monsters, and linchpin support units.

Deployment and list make a huge difference in whether or not Terradons are an effective threat. The list I have liked them the most in so far is the FoS list with 20x Chameleon Skinks, 40x Skinks, and two units of 6x Terradons. If allowed, this list is capable of getting all those units in your opponents face turn one. And the presence of a Terradon Cheif makes for a very fast hero to pass out Parting Shoot to both the Chameleons and Skinks while still being able to LoSaT the regular Skinks if desired. And, due to standard Kroak apparatus in the list, it is happy to go first or second in turn one. Depending on the enemy composition I find that I am able to depoly in such a way as to dare my opponent's to either give me first turn or second turn depending on my own preference.

In short, Terradons' threat range and the ability to all in with the list adds a lot of flexibility. I am not certain how much better over all Skink vs Terradons are, but I do get a lot of value out my Terradons in the current iteration of this list. Enemy shooting feels like the biggest threat to Seraphon in general. The list I built is specifically to help vs enemy shooting. It is a huge reason I really like Chameleon as well. Behing able to deploy Chams off table keeps them safe until the time is right. The list's ability to alpha strike makes the choice between taking turn or two turn much more difficult for brittle shooting armies like Tzeentch, CoS, and possibly LRL.

 

[LizardWizard]

fun fact, I used the Dagger on my astrolith as a cheaky threat when my kroak get charged. It killed a VLoZD with its ability, (Eventhough he only had a few wounds left) it was fun . And also a decent choice for prized possesion auxiliary. What auxiliaries do you guys use?

I think the Saurus Astrolith Bearer is the best holder for the Dagger in most FoS that don't have a combat hero. In the Skinks and Chameleons Skinks FoS list I always give it to my AB.

 

[Lord Toro]

2×6 terradonts definitly better then 1x9! I wanna ad starseer but no points. Maybe worth put 15 chame instead of 20?

 

[Grotpunter]

So pretty much every single game I have played since the release of our new tome I have brought along 5 Guards to help my Kroak/Slann out (Starborne list) in case they were under fire as a "core part" of my lists. Truth to be told though, it has almost never mattered - At least in the first couple of turns of any battle. This could be due to me not really facing a whole lot of Tzeentch/KO/CoS with Irondrakes etc./LRL.

How important and must-have do you guys feel Guards are from actual experience on the tables? In my list Im really looking at somehow gaining 100ish points, hence I took a hard look at Guards and considered not fielding them in my list but instead summon them turn 2 (4D3 CCP per turn in my list, so quite reliable) for 10 CCP in case it is an army I need it against.

I agree with Terradon and Skinks doing roughly the same shooting for their points under buffs. It is part of why I like have Terradons. The objective holding is also an important consideration. Parting Shoot is where the Skinks pull ahead in straight damage. Terradons in my experience are better at dealing with heroes, monsters, and linchpin support units.

Deployment and list make a huge difference in whether or not Terradons are an effective threat. The list I have liked them the most in so far is the FoS list with 20x Chameleon Skinks, 40x Skinks, and two units of 6x Terradons. If allowed, this list is capable of getting all those units in your opponents face turn one. And the presence of a Terradon Cheif makes for a very fast hero to pass out Parting Shoot to both the Chameleons and Skinks while still being able to LoSaT the regular Skinks if desired. And, due to standard Kroak apparatus in the list, it is happy to go first or second in turn one. Depending on the enemy composition I find that I am able to depoly in such a way as to dare my opponent's to either give me first turn or second turn depending on my own preference.

In short, Terradons' threat range and the ability to all in with the list adds a lot of flexibility. I am not certain how much better over all Skink vs Terradons are, but I do get a lot of value out my Terradons in the current iteration of this list. Enemy shooting feels like the biggest threat to Seraphon in general. The list I built is specifically to help vs enemy shooting. It is a huge reason I really like Chameleon as well. Behing able to deploy Chams off table keeps them safe until the time is right. The list's ability to alpha strike makes the choice between taking turn or two turn much more difficult for brittle shooting armies like Tzeentch, CoS, and possibly LRL.

Interesting but I think I would have to see a battle report of the actual game to really understand and see the usefulness of the Terradons. It still sounds like to me that 40 Skinks can do the same job just fine since the MW output is pretty close, yet Skinks got superior consistent damage and much better at holding objectives. 1 unit of 40 Skinks will have run and shoot = Up to 17" move + 16" shooting range turn 1. The other unit can be LoSaT'd.

You should record your games!

 

[Erta Wanderer]

honestly i don't think guard are as mandatory as many say. they era a good counter to alpha strikes and any opponent who know this game is going to kill kroak if you let him and guard are great to keep that from happening. this is even more important with the new battle plans forcing you to spread out. but and this is a big but i don't use kroak i use a standard slann in my lists and while useful to me their is very little reason to keep him alive after i drop my troops turn one and if my opponent can kill him before that happens i just don't put them in the sky. even if you do use kroak i think that we have enough cheep troops to skreen our units well and he doesn't need guard to keep him alive only dedicated shooting or deep strikes can hope to kill him and if you let 30 iron drakes get in range then 5 guard will not save him.
is it good to have guard? yes but i don't think they are mandatory against any one but KO maybe if they also protected the rest of our heroes guard would be useful but i don't see it at the moment.

 

[Nart]

I ran Kroak without guard several times and he survived just fine. They were friendly games, however, and the feeling of redundancy of guard maybe caused by the fact that their mere presence denies the wish to target Kroak.

As Erta mentioned, you can get out of range of most shooting stuff turn 1, but Kharadrons will get you, and guard will make difference here. Same with mirror match-ups (teleporting 40 skinks) and new SCE single drop builds.

 

[LizardWizard]

Like others have said, Guard's relevance depends on local meta. Against KO, Dot, CoS, and LRL they are very important. Zoning is rather effective vs DoT and CoS. KO and LRL are much harder to zone due to their ranges. My area has a shockingly high amount of competitive KO players. Alex Gonzales nearly lost with his OBR to one of them back at the height of Petrefex Elite.

I have only lost 3 guard models to passing off wounds in all my games so far. The mere fact that they are able to soak wounds and Kroak 4+ save after save seem to be enough to dissuade most of my opponent's from targeting him. Couple that with Skinks' 5+ save and a lot of alpha shooting might opt to kill the more killable targets instead. Which is honestly preferable. Not having to make the save rolls on Kroak means I don't risk rolling poorly and losing him.

 

[Tombomb7]

I have only played vs KO in AOS since its just my brother and I who we know play AOS. Keeping my heroes alive has always been a major issue so 5 Gaurds vs KO are mandatory, I'm contemplating taking 10! Even thinking of bringing a trog for extra wizard durability vs KO

 

[Lord Toro]

Guys what do you think in thunderlizard list posted here to play engine of the god instead on skink chief on stegadont? You can une 1 cp for 2 basti shoot and 1 to 2 engine ability to try to summon more saurus!!

 

[SkinkBait]

Guys what do you think in thunderlizard list posted here to play engine of the god instead on skink chief on stegadont? You can une 1 cp for 2 basti shoot and 1 to 2 engine ability to try to summon more saurus!!

LizardWizard and I have discussed this before and we came to the conclusion that the skink chief is just more consistent. Personally I think it would be a lot of fun, but spending a CP on something totally random is not competitively viable.

 

[LizardWizard]

Guys what do you think in thunderlizard list posted here to play engine of the god instead on skink chief on stegadont? You can une 1 cp for 2 basti shoot and 1 to 2 engine ability to try to summon more saurus!!

Pretty much what @SkinkBait said above. EotGs looks like is has a lot to offer, but even if you roll into MWs (what ever the ideal version of it is in any given situation) both times it still going to be on par of less than the Skystreak Bow with 4 Shoots. Fishing for the summons has a place. I say give it a try, but I rather prefer the Steg Chief.

 

[IggyStarhost]

Like others have said, Guard's relevance depends on local meta. Against KO, Dot, CoS, and LRL they are very important. Zoning is rather effective vs DoT and CoS. KO and LRL are much harder to zone due to their ranges. My area has a shockingly high amount of competitive KO players. Alex Gonzales nearly lost with his OBR to one of them back at the height of Petrefex Elite.

I have only lost 3 guard models to passing off wounds in all my games so far. The mere fact that they are able to soak wounds and Kroak 4+ save after save seem to be enough to dissuade most of my opponent's from targeting him. Couple that with Skinks' 5+ save and a lot of alpha shooting might opt to kill the more killable targets instead. Which is honestly preferable. Not having to make the save rolls on Kroak means I don't risk rolling poorly and losing him.

How does the Kroak pass off actually work? Can you roll first for the 4+ fnp, and if that fails pass off on a 2+. Or do you have to immediately have to pass it of when you fail your regular save? The wording on the scrolls kinda point to the first. But the general rules; finishing 1 warscroll before hopping to another (old faq I believe), if its both ‘during’ (not start or end) they player may choose, might say the latter.

 

[Grotpunter]

How does the Kroak pass off actually work? Can you roll first for the 4+ fnp, and if that fails pass off on a 2+. Or do you have to immediately have to pass it of when you fail your regular save? The wording on the scrolls kinda point to the first. But the general rules; finishing 1 warscroll before hopping to another (old faq I believe), if its both ‘during’ (not start or end) they player may choose, might say the latter.

The Saurus Guards warscroll states you get to use the ability before you allocate a wound. The 4+ FNP on Kroak says you get to roll a dice when you allocate a wound. Hence you must pass off on a 2+ first because it happens at the stage before you start allocating damage to a model. The 4+ FNP is used after you allocate the damage.

 

[IggyStarhost]

The Saurus Guards warscroll states you get to use the ability before you allocate a wound. The 4+ FNP on Kroak says you get to roll a dice when you allocate a wound. Hence you must pass off on a 2+ first because it happens at the stage before you start allocating damage to a model. The 4+ FNP is used after you allocate the damage.

Thats how I interpret it aswel when following the plain english wording. But GW has a way of wording things randomly with words like ‘before’ or ‘when’ when RAI they mean the same. Guess I just hope it is the other way around

 

[LizardWizard]

Exactly how @Grotpunter explained it.

 

[pinkskink]

@LizardWizard
So I've been absent of AoS for awhile, my FLGS is about to start a 1500 pt League soon. Since I'm super new to AoS Seraphon, I was just going to borrow one your lists until I get a handle of the army. Would you suggest finding a 2k list I like and remove 500 pts or one of the 1k lists and adding 500 pts. Or is there a different list that anyone might suggest I use to figure this stuff out?

 

[LizardWizard]

@LizardWizard
So I've been absent of AoS for awhile, my FLGS is about to start a 1500 pt League soon. Since I'm super new to AoS Seraphon, I was just going to borrow one your lists until I get a handle of the army. Would you suggest finding a 2k list I like and remove 500 pts or one of the 1k lists and adding 500 pts. Or is there a different list that anyone might suggest I use to figure this stuff out?

Welcome back to the hobby. I think either taking 2k and revamping it down or 1k and going up would work. I would also be happy to build a 1500pt list for you to go off of. What subfaction, if any, were you considering? And what is your collection access in terms of model availability?

 

[pinkskink]

Welcome back to the hobby. I think either taking 2k and revamping it down or 1k and going up would work. I would also be happy to build a 1500pt list for you to go off of. What subfaction, if any, were you considering? And what is your collection access in terms of model availability?

I played way back in 7th and I played what was meta so I have pretty close to 60+ Saurus (mostly clubs) and near 40 temple guard. Skinks unfortunately were not a huge part of the meta back then, so maybe about 40ish of those guys. I've got three Slann lol, but no Kroak because he was WAY over costed back then. I have two EoGs because they just came out and a carnosaur. I recently built an oracle on troglodon, and 6 terradon riders. I also own a version, if you will, of each current Saurus hero. I also just ordered a star priest and a skink priest with the cloak of feathers. And two salamander hunting packs. I think that's it

 

[LizardWizard]

I played way back in 7th and I played what was meta so I have pretty close to 60+ Saurus (mostly clubs) and near 40 temple guard. Skinks unfortunately were not a huge part of the meta back then, so maybe about 40ish of those guys. I've got three Slann lol, but no Kroak because he was WAY over costed back then. I have two EoGs because they just came out and a carnosaur. I recently built an oracle on troglodon, and 6 terradon riders. I also own a version, if you will, of each current Saurus hero. I also just ordered a star priest and a skink priest with the cloak of feathers. And two salamander hunting packs. I think that's it

Ah yes, the block of Temple Guard with a Lore of Hysh Slann and Chakax. Good times. Sadly, blocks of temple guard are no longer optimal in AoS. And spears help a lot on large units of Saurus Warriors now. Here is a 1500pt list that you might enjoy:

1500pt: Koatl's Claw

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders:
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- Warblade
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Saurus Sunblood (130)
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony

Battleline:
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs

Battalions:
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 100

This list has a couple weaknesses. Firstly, outside of commet's call you are reliant on combat to get work done. Reaching crucial back-line heroes will be difficult. Additionally, this build is very command point hungry. You will have to spend your CP wisely, and it make take a couple runs to get a good feel for the timing on your Saurus. This list is also a bit brittle. Once you lose 6 Saurus from a unit and the extra attack falls off the unit become much much weaker. The nice thing is this list should do rather well vs multi-damage weapons. It also has a lot of threat saturation. There isn't much an opponent will be able to ignore.

Upgrading to a Kroak would be ideal, but without the Balewind Vortex and Astrolith the standard Slann will do almost as well. Should you get a block of 40x Saurus Warriors with spears, then drop two units to 10x Club and make a single 40x Spears unit. Bound Geminds, Balewind Vortex, & Kroak would be my first buys if you are looking to go more competitive. Since you have 3 Slann it could be fun to make your own Kroak mask and go for a living version of the Defender of Itza.
.

 

[Khatif]

I rather enjoy Terradons. They are probably the most skill intensive of our top units to use though. In most of my games they have stuck around till the end. I generally am able to play them safe until I can drop their bombs around my turn two. I have been able to accomplish this through a mixture of strong positioning and using Skinks/Chameleons to present a more immediate threat.

After Terradons drop their bombs they tend to be ignored. Over the course of a game the Bola damage almost exceeds the MWs. Boals are real scary with a Seprent's Staff buff as well. Terradons have mostly worked as a counter punch unit for me. I try to have them in the vacinity of my Skink blobs and out of the way.

I also rather like the Terradon Chief in FoS. It makes for a solid hero to pass out the Parting Shot command ability. The high movement and fly often means it can keep up with any units of Skinks I LoSaT. It is also a decent option for the Serpent's God Dagger.

I am running a list with 40 skinks and 5 more 10 unit of skinks with 12 Terradons.
I agree Terradons are good and fun. Also difficult to play and you need skills to use them right. Position is key.
Unfortunately, I had a very limited time to practice with them yet. So I see the next tournament as my first competitive practice day with the..