8th Ed. Scarnosaur + high magic loremaster?

[Pinktaco]

Just wrote this in the "discussion forum". Figured I'd post it here.

So what I'm about to suggest is nothing remarkable or new.. I think.. But, it's an interesting concept IMO.


A scar vet with armour of destiny, shield, spear (for AS+1 and +1S on charge) along with a "naked" carnosaur will cost around.. 360pts? A BSB can be chosen which will up the price with an additional 25pts.

Normally I like to go cheap on my slann so:

Slann, loremast in high magic, dispel scroll - 360pts.

With the BSB we're talking a total of 745pts.
This struck me as something I normally invest in lords/heroes so it's not an expensive combo. As I said I usually have a naked slann, or mostly naked, because I don't want to be super reliant on my slann, so I don't consider his build less ideal than a pimped out frog.

Looping stride is probably ideal on the scarnosaur for an additional 15pts, the roar is up to you, however since this affects both fear tests and terror tests it can be quite effective. Dat WS1. Anyway that's another 25pts.

So 785pts.

The reason why I'm considering this combo should be quite obvious IMO:

While most of us can agree on that high magic is quite good it just serves this build so well. We can obviously not make cannons go away, so that is always a risk, but we can:

- Heal with up to 3 wounds.
- Boost the movement with Walk Between Worlds. Since it's a single model it can pivot by the end of the movement and be ready to charge in the following round.
- Boost WS and initiative. Or well we can atleast try to. With initative 2 you'll have to roll somewhat high if you want to strike first against most opponents, but still, I think there are solutions to the issues the carnosaur is dealing with.

The biggest issue IMO is and will always be not losing the carnosaur to a cannon or similar. If that can be avoided we can heal the thing when it loses wounds in combat.

I think that with high magic and the option to take a scarnosaur we've at least been given the chance to try out something that very well could work, to some degree. It's probably still not good in competitive environment, but at least it's viable compared to previous book.

Now about the slann - most of you will probably want a skink priest around which would be another 65pts, but I don't see it as a "must have" choice. I usually don't have the Slann in my templeguard bunker anyway due to miscast risk, so I usually put him in a skink cohort unit with musician. While he isn't as fast as a regular priest nor have the same range due to arcane vassal I still think it's a decent compromise.

I'm certainly going to try this off next time I'll be playing vs my O&G friend. I'll probably keep the carno at home when he uses his dwarfs or empire..


Have any of you tried this particular combo?

Thoughts?

 

[hdctambien]

I usually put [the Slann] in a skink cohort unit with musician

When my Slann isn't in the TG I like to put him in a unit of Skink Skirmishers. He gets the 2+ Look Out Sir, -1 to hit when shot, Miscast #7 doesn't hit anything, Miscast #5-6 only hits 2 skinks, and he has the maneuverability of a skirmish unit.

 

[Scalenex]

My last game against Orcs and Goblins, my friend took a Wyvern for the first time. The 18 inch inspiring presence was potent (especially since we played Battle for the Pass so our armies were more compacted. Until I killed the general, everything go his Ld. My biggest issue in the game was my lesser units panicking and/or not rallying. The wires crossed in my brain and I figured an 18 inch BSB range would be quite useful for us. 18 inch inspiring presence I could go either way.

I plan to try a Scarnosaur BSB/Slann Combo soon. I'm not sure if I want to go High magic though (not for tactical reasons, I feel like I'm overdue for giving old fashioned BRB lores a spin in the new book).

Now my immediate gaming circle has decided we have enough models to make 3000 our standard size, not 2500. Now I can fit in a Scarnosaur and fully kitted Slann without a lot of fuss. If I went this route in 2500 points, I would probably take a Life Slann instead of High magic. Plenty of healing and you can skip lore mastery and save 30 points.

 

[Man0waR]

I should not put the BSB in a model that already cost 360 points. If killed it gives 460 points.
The Carnosaur isn't going to live so long, leaving your scarvet alone, and if breaks for cc, you have to remove the whole model.

Not a good trade.

 

[Pinktaco]

Well yeah, I think I would personally go for the Slann, but then again, against O&G I might just try out the scarnosaur BSB. At least their doomdiver is less reliable then a cannon.

 

[Pinktaco]

My last game against Orcs and Goblins, my friend took a Wyvern for the first time. The 18 inch inspiring presence was potent (especially since we played Battle for the Pass so our armies were more compacted. Until I killed the general, everything go his Ld. My biggest issue in the game was my lesser units panicking and/or not rallying. The wires crossed in my brain and I figured an 18 inch BSB range would be quite useful for us. 18 inch inspiring presence I could go either way.

I plan to try a Scarnosaur BSB/Slann Combo soon. I'm not sure if I want to go High magic though (not for tactical reasons, I feel like I'm overdue for giving old fashioned BRB lores a spin in the new book).

Now my immediate gaming circle has decided we have enough models to make 3000 our standard size, not 2500. Now I can fit in a Scarnosaur and fully kitted Slann without a lot of fuss. If I went this route in 2500 points, I would probably take a Life Slann instead of High magic. Plenty of healing and you can skip lore mastery and save 30 points.

I actually think you're right about life. I mean, sure both high magic and life could work, but life does ultimately give you more healing spell.

Flesh to Stone will be nasty on the carnosaur + lifebloom and not to mention that regrowth. Just getting one spell off gives you the potential to heal the carnosaur.

So, I think that's what I'll do for my next game. :3

 

[Mr Phat]

Well yeah, I think I would personally go for the Slann, but then again, against O&G I might just try out the scarnosaur BSB. At least their doomdiver is less reliable then a cannon.

Death is a pretty potent lore towards O&G

Doom and Darkness + Bloodroar/ their constant testing

Soulblight in Saurus-matchups swings victory from orcs.

Purple sun...orcs and gobs also suffer from low initiative

 

[Pinktaco]

I've already done that against him. I don't want to be a d1ck and waste all his characters once more.
Next time maybe

 

[Prof]

Trying out a naked slann and carnosaur in a couple of weeks vs empire - will let you know how it goes! Being a bit mad and doing oldblood on cold one too (3k), so who knows what will happen?!

 

[Pinktaco]

Sounds interesting. And brutal

 

[Anubris]

I really like the concept you put up and couldn't help but try to make a decent list with it. It's made primarily with models I already got (just missing steg and basti):

--2400 points--

-Slann, BSB, focus of mystery, becalming cogitation (or dispel scroll)

-Saurus Scar-Vet, Armour of Destiny, Shield, Spear, Carnosaur, Bloodroar, Looping Stride

-30 Saurus warrs, full command
-10 Skink Skirmishers
-10 Skink Skirmishers
-10 Skinks, 1 Kroxigor

-Bastiladon, Solar Engine
-5 Chameleon Skinks
-5 Chameleon Skinks
-20 Temple Guard, Full Command

-Ancient Steg, Sharpened Horns
-Salamander, extra snack
-Salamander, extra snack

My main concerns with the concept are cannons (duh) and in this particular list the Slann might need a bit more to prevent blowing up the TG.... just don't know where you would get those points.

Another thing about the carnosaur: If you use charmed shield on the Scar-Vet, would it also ''save'' the carnosaur? Too good to be true probably? In that case AoD is better

 

[Scalenex]

It would only save the Old Blood unfortunately, but at least by saving the Old Blood you wouldn't lose all the points. Don't forget an Oldblood with a Strength boosting weapon is about as powerful as a Carnosaur.

 

[Putzfrau]

with being able to barely (and I mean barely) squeeze in an oldblood on cold one in a 2400/2500 list I love bringing my scar vet on a carno.

the model is awesome, and having a second "hammer" unit in addition to your ancient adds some nice redundancy that I think is sorely lacking from the lizardmen book.


but mostly the model.

 

[Kaughnor]

What is the best way to kit out the scarnosaur? I see you originally put armour of destiny and charmed shield but I'm wondering if a bare bones scarvet might be better (LA + Charmed Shield). The Carnosaur is going to be taking so much heat I wonder if the points spent on the armour of destiny are better off put towards another element of the list. I just put the carnosaur model together and its killer. Also, If you cast a heal spell on the scarnosaur can you apportion the health points between the scarvet and carnasaur as you deam fit? ie you have two pips to heal and spend one on the scarvet and one on the carnosaur.

 

[Lizardmatt]

The problem is the disparity in initiatives.
If the init 3 scar vet gets stuck in a challenge, and he kills the enemy unit champ with his 4 attacks, the Carnisaur doesn't get to swing at all.
Because of this, I usually run the scar vet with light armor, charmed shield, and great weapon.
At least this way, if stuck in the challenge you'll get the S7 D3 wounds at Init 2 (over-kill for combat res), and failing that, the scar vet swings at the same time as the thunder stomp.

I find myself losing combat a lot less often with an ASL scar vet.

Also, the 4+ ward may save the rider, but the carnisaur is in real trouble if it takes focused fire. Cheaper is usually better; the ward save just makes him more expensive, and still not survivable enough.

-Matt

 

[T_Saurus]

My last game against Orcs and Goblins, my friend took a Wyvern for the first time. The 18 inch inspiring presence was potent (especially since we played Battle for the Pass so our armies were more compacted. Until I killed the general, everything go his Ld. My biggest issue in the game was my lesser units panicking and/or not rallying. The wires crossed in my brain and I figured an 18 inch BSB range would be quite useful for us. 18 inch inspiring presence I could go either way.

I plan to try a Scarnosaur BSB/Slann Combo soon. I'm not sure if I want to go High magic though (not for tactical reasons, I feel like I'm overdue for giving old fashioned BRB lores a spin in the new book).

Now my immediate gaming circle has decided we have enough models to make 3000 our standard size, not 2500. Now I can fit in a Scarnosaur and fully kitted Slann without a lot of fuss. If I went this route in 2500 points, I would probably take a Life Slann instead of High magic. Plenty of healing and you can skip lore mastery and save 30 points.

I actually think you're right about life. I mean, sure both high magic and life could work, but life does ultimately give you more healing spell.

Flesh to Stone will be nasty on the carnosaur + lifebloom and not to mention that regrowth. Just getting one spell off gives you the potential to heal the carnosaur.

So, I think that's what I'll do for my next game. :3

Just a comment. Regrowth cannot be used to heal characters or mounts.

 

[Kaughnor]

If you dropped focus of mystery and went with life instead do you guys think its worth while to pick up becalming on the cheap slann? Just for a little bit more defence. I was thinking in a 2k list taking the following combo. The rest of the army would be made up of more standard choices (including a couple of more monsters to capitalize on life magic).

Slann - life, bsb, dispel scroll, becalming
Scar Vet - LA, GW, Charmed Shield, Ironcurse Icon

I really like the idea of a slann carnosaur combo.

 

[hdctambien]

I've been running a Life Slann with the Channeling Staff, Becalming, and Harmonic and sometimes leaving the Dispel Scroll Skink Priest at home. You still have to pick your battles with Becalming and roll the same amount of dice you would have rolled if you didn't have Becalming, but it's worked for me just as well as a dispel scroll (and it can work every magic phase!)

 

[Putzfrau]

I've been running a Life Slann with the Channeling Staff, Becalming, and Harmonic and sometimes leaving the Dispel Scroll Skink Priest at home. You still have to pick your battles with Becalming and roll the same amount of dice you would have rolled if you didn't have Becalming, but it's worked for me just as well as a dispel scroll (and it can work every magic phase!)

do you still find life as effective without loremaster?

i've been hesitant to use it because without loremaster you're bound to miss out on something awesome everyone once in a while.

 

[hdctambien]

do you still find life as effective without loremaster?

i've been hesitant to use it because without loremaster you're bound to miss out on something awesome everyone once in a while.

I've been pretty lucky and have been rolling the 4 spells I want (Earthblood, Throne of Vines, Flesh to Stone, Regrowth) in almost every game.

One game I didn't roll any doubles and instead of getting Regrowth I got Dwellers Below ... so it wasn't too terrible.

I've been running my Slann in a block of TG so Earthblood and Throne of Vines are really good for keeping them alive. And Regrowth keeps my Saurus fighting long after their expiration date.

Some games I won't roll the spells I want, I'm sure, but them's the breaks. You know what they say: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes...