• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS Scar-vet on Cold one command ability

MackiMac
Ripperdactyl

MackiMac

Well-Known Member
Messages
415
Likes Received
1,139
Trophy Points
93
I have just a quick question on the Scar-veteran on Cold One command ability.

Im my mind, the way its written, it can be interpreted in both ways. Which one is correct?

”You can re-roll charge rolls and hit rolls of 1”

1. Re-roll charge rolls of 1

Or

2. Re-roll charge rolls
 
Last edited:
That is weirdly ambigious now that you've pointed it out. Always interperterd it as you can re-roll rolls of 1 for both charge & hit rolls.

Are there any other examples where they have used the same phrasing and they indeed mean "re-roll A" and "re-roll B for this specific value" as opposed to "reroll this value for both A & B"
 
MackiMac said:
I have just a quick question on the Scar-veteran on Cold One command ability.

Im my mind, the way its written, it can be interpreted in both ways. Which one is correct?

”You can re-roll charge rolls and hit rolls of 1”

1. Re-roll charge rolls of 1

Or

2. Re-roll charge rolls
Click to expand...
I have been using it as re-roll charges rolls. Additionally, re-rolling hit rolls of 1.

There is ambiguity in the language. I normally tell the TO my interpretation of the rule before my first match and ask if they agree with me. If not, I yield to the TO's ruling. Due to the wording it does require clarification and house ruling. Either by the TO or your play group.
 
Canas said:
In that case they should really F.A.Q. if they haven't already. It's rather a large difference and has a massive impact on how you'd play.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think it is on GWs radar.

There're advantages and disadvantages to both interpretations. Like if you roll a 5+ and a 1 then you want to only reroll the 1. If you roll a 1 and 2 then you want to reroll both.
 
Aginor said:
There are no charge rolls of 1, the minimum result is 2 (a "charge roll" is the two dice at once, they are not separate).

So IMO no need for a FAQ there.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and besides that it says "Charge rolls and Hit rolls of 1" else it would have to say: "Charge and Hits rolls of 1"

So I'll go for the second explanation

Gr, Imrahil
 
Aginor said:
There are no charge rolls of 1, the minimum result is 2 (a "charge roll" is the two dice at once, they are not separate).

So IMO no need for a FAQ there.
Click to expand...
Meh I'd disagree, the result of a charge is the combination of 2 charge rolls. See also the tzeentch general trait that allows you to re-roll casting rolls of 1 and casting rolls work the exact same as charge rolls. That entire ability would be pointless if the "casting roll" would only be the end-result.

And more in general I'd suspect there's other rules where for example they say "hit rolls and wound rolls of 1" which still leaves us with the same problem.

Anyway, emailed them so maybe they'l give a usefull anwser.
 
Canas said:
Meh I'd disagree, the result of a charge is the combination of 2 charge rolls. See also the tzeentch general trait that allows you to re-roll casting rolls of 1 and casting rolls work the exact same as charge rolls. That entire ability would be pointless if the "casting roll" would only be the end-result.

And more in general I'd suspect there's other rules where for example they say "hit rolls and wound rolls of 1" which still leaves us with the same problem.

Anyway, emailed them so maybe they'l give a usefull anwser.
Click to expand...
The core rules, page 1 "Re-rolls" seem to disagree though.

Your interpretation would mean that an ability that allows rerolling a charge roll would only allow rerolling one of the dice.
 
Aginor said:
Your interpretation would mean that an ability that allows rerolling a charge roll would only allow rerolling one of the dice.
Click to expand...
Why? They usually say "you can re-roll charge rolls" so if a charge essentially consists of 2 rolls you can reroll both.

Aginor said:
The core rules, page 1 "Re-rolls" seem to disagree though.
Click to expand...
sigh.. I wish they'd just write precise rules for once, instead of all this ambiguoity..
 
If they always used the world "rolls" it would actually be OK. However they sometimes use "roll" which is why they had to make clear that throwing two dice when charging is still _one_ roll. Same for a spell casting roll.
 
Aginor said:
The core rules, page 1 "Re-rolls" seem to disagree though.

Your interpretation would mean that an ability that allows rerolling a charge roll would only allow rerolling one of the dice.
Click to expand...
There are banners that do exactly that. @Canas is correct about being able to re-roll the single dice. I do tend to favor the second interpretation due to reasons @Imrahil listed in his interpretation of the rule though.

GW has done a fantastic job of cleaning up the language of their rules. However, there are still some poorly worded remnants.
 
In the rules section it specifically explains the definition of a charge roll, I would say this doesn't actually need clarification. a charge roll is specifically defined as 2d6 of dice. since the ability states re-roll charge rolls and a single roll cannot have a score of 1... id again would repeat that there is no clarification or vagueness inherent in this rule.
Capture.PNG
 
ILKAIN said:
In the rules section it specifically explains the definition of a charge roll, I would say this doesn't actually need clarification. a charge roll is specifically defined as 2d6 of dice. since the ability states re-roll charge rolls and a single roll cannot have a score of 1... id again would repeat that there is no clarification or vagueness inherent in this rule.
View attachment 60881
Click to expand...
This doesn't actually clarify. This rule. I don't think there is anyone in the conversation who believed charges were made with 1d6.

There are also abilities which subtract 1 from charge rolls. So in that case the rule could also be read as is while only being able to re-roll charge rolls with a total of one. There are banners that allow for a single charge dice re-roll.

I think both interpretations have strong arguments in the based on the syntax of the rule. However, I don't think there is adequate tertiary rules to clarify which interpretation is accurate.
 
LizardWizard said:
This doesn't actually clarify. This rule. I don't think there is anyone in the conversation who believed charges were made with 1d6.

There are also abilities which subtract 1 from charge rolls. So in that case the rule could also be read as is while only being able to re-roll charge rolls with a total of one. There are banners that allow for a single charge dice re-roll.

I think both interpretations have strong arguments in the based on the syntax of the rule. However, I don't think there is adequate tertiary rules to clarify which interpretation is accurate.
Click to expand...
a rare mistake by the wizard lol. re rolls are before modifiers so the banners and all the modifiers are irrelevant. there is no possible way to have a standard charge roll equal 1 when checking for rerolls.
 
ILKAIN said:
a rare mistake by the wizard lol. re rolls are before modifiers so the banners and all the modifiers are irrelevant. there is no possible way to have a standard charge roll equal 1 when checking for rerolls.
Click to expand...
Right duh, it was a bad example.

It does still stand that you can't interpret the ScV rule via reading the description of charges though. However, It is part of the argument I use with TOs. Despite this, it is still inadequately vague. As the value of a single dice can still be one, and there is precedent for re-rolling single dice in multi-diced rolls.
 
LizardWizard said:
Right duh, it was a bad example.

It does still stand that you can't interpret the ScV rule via reading the description of charges though. However, It is part of the argument I use with TOs. Despite this, it is still inadequately vague. As the value of a single dice can still be one, and there is precedent for re-rolling single dice in multi-diced rolls.
Click to expand...
what unit has a banner that allows for the single die re-roll of a charge? I read up on the tzeench general trait and it is worded to specifically identify a single die... this one just says roll. so id be curious to see how the banner re-roll ability is worded.
 
ILKAIN said:
a rare mistake by the wizard lol. re rolls are before modifiers so the banners and all the modifiers are irrelevant. there is no possible way to have a standard charge roll equal 1 when checking for rerolls.
Click to expand...
that particular rule is so confusing. It makes things unbelievably messy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top