7th Ed. Scar-Vet = Mini Steg

[denixrelic]

i got a scar vet with a great weapon and Hide of the Cold Ones.
he's T6 Str7, Sv3+, basically a mini ancient steg, he just has less wounds.

what are your views on running a hero like this to support my 9 attack Oldblood?

thx for the advice.

 

[asrodrig]

A mini Ancient Steg... with Stupidity, without Impact Hits, no Giant Blowpipes or Skink Crew... So really, not like an Ancient Steg at all.
However, I think it would be a cool thing for smashy goodness, as long as he doesn't become subject to Stupidity.

 

[JohnMavrick]

It sounds like a good killing machine to me, with his decent leadership combined with cold blooded special rule he shouldn't be subject to stupidity that often. Although I would take care to place him where he would be most advantageous such as to take out cavalry or a character killer.

 

[erians]

I personally love mounted scar vets and would never play with a scar vet on foot (maybe with jag charm and GW for chariot insta-gibbing). As mentioned your "mini steg" is not a mini steg in any aspect besides its T stat and save. A cold one mount gives you a 1+ save and can be (should be even) combined with enchanted shield for a 0+ save. The only upside of the "mini steg" is resilience, but its LESS resilient than a mounted scar vet and can't get magical attacks for wraith killing.

T6 & 3+ save vs T5 & 0+ Save

Against S3: Both gets wounded on 6s but you get a 2+ instead of a 3+ save with the mounted vet. Cold one mounted scar vet is more resilient.

Against S4: 12 S4 hits does 2 wounds, 1 saved by the "mini steg", 18 S4 htis does 6 wounds in the mounted scar vet, 1 slips throught his save. Cold one mounted scar vet is more resilient (12 hits per wound vs 18 htis per wound).

Against S5: 9 hits does 3 wounds to the "mini steg", 1 saved causing 2 wounds (4.5 atks to wound), 12 hits does 6 wounds on the cold one scar vet, 5 saved causing 1 wound. Cold one mounted Scar vet is more resilient (4.5 hits per wound vs 12 hits per wound).

Against S6: 12 hits does 6 wounds on the mini steg, saving 1 (2.4 hits to wound). 9 hits does 6 wounds on the scar vet, he saves all but 2 wounds (4.5 hits to wound).

Why the cold one mounted Scar Vet is better:

+More resilient against all S types.
+Can take a magic weapon, talisman or enchanted item
+Access to magical & flaming attacks
+7" Move
+Gets +1 S4 attack (not a huge advantage but not to be neglected)

Why the "mini steg" is better:

+360 degrees LOS
+S7
+Can be steeded if you have Lore of Shadows on the Slann (a pretty big "if")

 

[Stegadeth]

I am with erians on this. I don't see the point of taking the Hide of the Cold Ones over an actual Cold One on a Scar Vet. It does less and you pay more for it than you would an actual Cold One.

 

[the ironfoot]

The cold one rider might be better, but i can imagine using him as a bsb in a saurus block or something. With his great weapon he could surprise the enemy. and when you cast Bears Anger on the guy you've got yourself a VERY scary statline indeed. Overal He might not be the best, but still fun to try.

I think the hide is best used on an Oldblood in large games.

 

[JohnMavrick]

Why the cold one mounted Scar Vet is better:

+More resilient against all S types.
+Can take a magic weapon, talisman or enchanted item
+Access to magical & flaming attacks
+7" Move
+Gets +1 S4 attack (not a huge advantage but not to be neglected)

Don't also forget that a Scar Vet on a cold one causes fear!

 

[erians]

I knew i missed somthing ! Making a unit immune to fear can be huge, especially when you want to avoid auto-breaking from combat against daemons and VC !

 

[novatomato]

Hide of the Cold Ones
Heavy armour. The wearer causes fear. +1 toughness.
The wearer gains stupidity.

They both cause, and therefor are immune to, fear.

Just thought I'd point that out for congruency.

 

[kroxigor01]

This talk about the superiority of armour makes me wonder. Is the enchanted shield worth it?

I normally take this:

Saurus Scar Veteran – Burning Blade, cold one, enchanted shield, light armour
145

BUT, what if I where to take this?

Saurus Scar Veteran – Burning Blade, cold one, shield, light armour
138


Lets compare the saves per wound per point (saves per wound.point) for different stengths. [high numbers are good, which means low denominators are good...got that ]

S3
0+ = 5/6 x 1/145 = 1/174
1+ = 5/6 x 1/138 = 1/165.6 <-- better

S4
0+ = 1/174
1+ = 1/165.6 <-- better

S5
0+ = 1/174 <-- better
1+ = 1/207

S5
0+ = 1/217.5 <-- better
1+ = 1/276

S6
0+ = 1/290 <-- better
1+ = 1/414

Well that didn't change anything. If S3 and S4 wounds get you the normal shield is better (which is intuitive ), but why protect your T5 dude from S3/4 when you need S5 to really wound him anyway?

Ignore this post.

 

[The Hunted]

I personally love mounted scar vets and would never play with a scar vet on foot (maybe with jag charm and GW for chariot insta-gibbing). As mentioned your "mini steg" is not a mini steg in any aspect besides its T stat and save. A cold one mount gives you a 1+ save and can be (should be even) combined with enchanted shield for a 0+ save. The only upside of the "mini steg" is resilience, but its LESS resilient than a mounted scar vet and can't get magical attacks for wraith killing.

T6 & 3+ save vs T5 & 0+ Save

Against S3: Both gets wounded on 6s but you get a 2+ instead of a 3+ save with the mounted vet. Cold one mounted scar vet is more resilient.

Against S4: 12 S4 hits does 2 wounds, 1 saved by the "mini steg", 18 S4 htis does 6 wounds in the mounted scar vet, 1 slips throught his save. Cold one mounted scar vet is more resilient (12 hits per wound vs 18 htis per wound).

Against S5: 9 hits does 3 wounds to the "mini steg", 1 saved causing 2 wounds (4.5 atks to wound), 12 hits does 6 wounds on the cold one scar vet, 5 saved causing 1 wound. Cold one mounted Scar vet is more resilient (4.5 hits per wound vs 12 hits per wound).

Against S6: 12 hits does 6 wounds on the mini steg, saving 1 (2.4 hits to wound). 9 hits does 6 wounds on the scar vet, he saves all but 2 wounds (4.5 hits to wound).

Why the cold one mounted Scar Vet is better:

+More resilient against all S types.
+Can take a magic weapon, talisman or enchanted item
+Access to magical & flaming attacks
+7" Move
+Gets +1 S4 attack (not a huge advantage but not to be neglected)

Why the "mini steg" is better:

+360 degrees LOS
+S7
+Can be steeded if you have Lore of Shadows on the Slann (a pretty big "if")

I don't agree with the resilient part for 100%. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the scar-vet on CO with some magical gear. But our Stegadon is also quite resilient to enemy attacks.
In this example you assume that every hit is randomized on the stegadon. This isn't always true with shooting, because of our lovely skink save.
In CC, whole different story. But yes, then the steg has a problem with resilient (you should say that to a random opponent, wanna bet he freaks out?)

A Scar-vet BSB on CO, is nigh invincible versus regular troops, anything but a full ranked unit actually...
He also supports any of your troops within 12" . Love the guy.

The Hunted

 

[erians]

I don't agree with the resilient part for 100%. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the scar-vet on CO with some magical gear. But our Stegadon is also quite resilient to enemy attacks.
In this example you assume that every hit is randomized on the stegadon. This isn't always true with shooting, because of our lovely skink save.
In CC, whole different story. But yes, then the steg has a problem with resilient (you should say that to a random opponent, wanna bet he freaks out?)

A Scar-vet BSB on CO, is nigh invincible versus regular troops, anything but a full ranked unit actually...
He also supports any of your troops within 12" . Love the guy.

The Hunted

Heh, i think you misunderstood me, I was talking about the Hide of the cold one Scar vet that the OP is calling a "mini steg", not the actual steg (even tho it applies to the steg too if the hits are in CC and directed towards the steg, didnt even think of that ^_^).

 

[The Hunted]

I don't agree with the resilient part for 100%. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the scar-vet on CO with some magical gear. But our Stegadon is also quite resilient to enemy attacks.
In this example you assume that every hit is randomized on the stegadon. This isn't always true with shooting, because of our lovely skink save.
In CC, whole different story. But yes, then the steg has a problem with resilient (you should say that to a random opponent, wanna bet he freaks out?)

A Scar-vet BSB on CO, is nigh invincible versus regular troops, anything but a full ranked unit actually...
He also supports any of your troops within 12" . Love the guy.

The Hunted

Heh, i think you misunderstood me, I was talking about the Hide of the cold one Scar vet that the OP is calling a "mini steg", not the actual steg (even tho it applies to the steg too if the hits are in CC and directed towards the steg, didnt even think of that ^_^).

Misunderstanding Nr.7.634.908 in my life!
No, I do not really count all my misunderstandings in my life...
Then the complete story makes all the sense in the world....=D

The Hunted