9th Age Saurian 1.3 edition

[Papalugy]

So edition 1.3 is out for Saurians and with it quite a lot of small changes. Starting with our core the warriors are cheaper as are their spears which is just good all around. Skinks took a net hit in my opinion as while they're cheaper they lost javelins and poisoned cc and poisoned javelins are quite expensive. Temple Guard are now just more expensive but they also start with more models. Raptors and Rhomphs are cheaper which is nice and the Bastilodon now has movement 5, which I suspect will more useful then it looks. The last major change is that the Caimen Ancient got +1 ws and attack so now he's a bit more of a hero.

So what are the other 9th Age player's thought on the matter?

 

[SilverFaith]

A notable change is wisdom of the Ancients getting reworked entirely - it is NOT bound spells, but merely +1 spell for 70 points.

They also nerfed one of the other disciplines. So net loss for the Cuatl, a model already suffering from being pretty terrible at its obscene cost.

Saurus got better, which is awesome. Looking at my current list, I won't change anything, but rather include more, because a lot of my stuff just got cheaper, which is great. Kinda sad that they didn't give a helping hand to our monsters as promised - in fact, they did the opposite, and added ANOTHER great tool to the standard magic items that help deal with monsters. So if you enjoy monster mashing: I am so sorry.

I really hope our big update brings some proper redesigns and rebalances, because this update has been a bit of "pretty nice" and a bit of "why would you do that...?" Which leaves me with a feeling that the rule team doesn't really know what to do with us, or just doesn't care. With these haphazard nerfs to underperforming units, I feel like literally anything could happen over the next few updates, which is unsettling to say the least.

 

[Papalugy]

@SilverFaith
I agree it does suck that our monsters got ignored despite promises to the contrary. As for the Cuatl I honestly forgot about them cause they just seem like a pale, useless imitation of a Slann. I too find it worrying that the "adjustments" seem more like aimless flailing without any regard for our internal balance. It seems to me that with every update the Saurians lose more of what makes them unique and competitive without really gaining anything in return.

 

[pendrake]

Skinks took a net hit in my opinion as while they're cheaper they lost javelins and poisoned cc and poisoned javelins are quite expensive.

How could they lose javelins if they have poisoned javelins?

Is your post missing some words?

 

[Papalugy]

@pendrake
No it's correct just poorly worded. See they lost their ordinary javelins that were part of their base equipment but they gained the option to take poisoned javelins.

 

[pendrake]

@pendrake
No it's correct just poorly worded. See they lost their ordinary javelins that were part of their base equipment but they gained the option to take poisoned javelins.

Then that is incompetent rules writing.

Well at least I now know, from this one example, that it isn't worth my time to even look at 9th Age.

(And, I have only a handful of Skinks with Javelins in my collection, maybe 12... But, it is obvious whoever is writing 9th age has lost sight of the point of their existence: Write Rules For Everyone's Collections. This means: Chaos Knights with swords or lances or stupidly big poleaxes; Elf archers with armor or unarmored; beastmen with halberds with or without armor; all the kinds of Bretonnian Knights including on foot!; Skinks with blowpipe, javelin, bow or whatever else they've had in the past... )

Include all the kinds of model soldiers or don't bother at all.
Go big or go home.

 

[SilverFaith]

But, it is obvious whoever is writing 9th age has lost sight of the point of their existence

The main point was always an evolving version of ETC.

But what is so aggravating is how different the armies get.

Ny two main focuses right now is Saurian Ancients and Ogre Khan's

SA feels bland, with mediocre units across the board, overperform in Firstborns, and then a slew of weak-to-useless options. It feels like we have neither interesting options nor any real strengths - I honestly can't name even 1 strength. Our shooting keeps getting nerfed, our combat ability is terrible compared to the actual CC armies, and we don't have any elite CC unit that has a snowballs chance in hell of competing, our movement is average to slightly above average, our Ld is slowly moving in the wrong direction, our magic is laughable, where we pay more than anybody else, for the exact same magic power, but less of everything else. Monsters were untouched, but got an indirect nerf with the inclusion of ANOTHER anti-monster weapon... I feel like I have trouble picking the right models, because most of the options feels like traps. Those I stick to often don't feel right, and rarely do what I feel they should. It is so sad that the only two units I truly feel do their job, are Saurus Warriors with spears, and firstborns.

Seriously, what is our strength here?

In comparison, Ogres got an improved shaman, who can manage himself in CC on top of being a powerful caster (and cheaper than the Cuatl), their heavy S6 core unit got cheaper, their Hunter got a ton of added flavour, and they can field MI heavy, Beast heavy, Gunline or Monster heavy, and all lists feels balanced and competetive. And most importantly, they feel good. The army has identity, and there are so many good options that I can't decide between them. They have clear strengths and weaknesses, and the amount of variety in army lists is staggering, and it never feels like I am just shooting myself in the foot for bringing a particular choice.

The difference is just so massive, that I can't properly describe it. I don't understand how it got to this point.

And this patch was advertised as a "feel good patch", that gave us a taste of what's to come in the big update...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I haven't really followed T9A since the drop of the big ver. 0.99 update. I'm surprised to hear that things are still so bad on the SA front. I thought the idea of T9A was the sacrifice a bit of flavor/theme (in comparison to 8th edition) in exchange for improved balance. Judging purely by what you guys have posted, they seem to be falling extremely short on the balance front. Saurian Ancients seem to have worse balance than Lizardmen.

Am I misreading this?

Are Saurian Ancients a unique case, or are there major balance issues across the board?

Is the popularity of T9A growing, declining or staying constant?

 

[Papalugy]

@NIGHTBRINGER
Your absolutely right as far as the Saurian Ancients are concerned. The only thing to have really improved since 8th is that the Stygiosaur is better then the Trog. I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure it's just the Saurians getting f--ked over and all the other armies are both more balanced and fun (though I could be wrong about that).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The only thing to have really improved since 8th is that the Stygiosaur is better then the Trog.

At least that's a small positive. The Trog was absolutely pathetic under 8th edition rules. It's sad to see the rest of the army suffer though.

 

[SilverFaith]

@NIGHTBRINGER
I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure it's just the Saurians getting f--ked over and all the other armies are both more balanced and fun (though I could be wrong about that).

Ogre Khan's feels super satisfying to use, and the book is brimming with cool and effective choices. You never feel like you are taking a straight up bad choice, and you can tailor a list to excel in any phase of the game you want.

SA just fails in pretty much all phases. We are apparently a shooting army now? I don't even know anymore.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

SA just fails in pretty much all phases. We are apparently a shooting army now? I don't even know anymore.

That is just sad. So what incentive do you guys think players have in choosing T9A + Saurian Ancients over Warhammer Fantasy + Lizardmen? Obviously fantasy is a "dead" game, but is there anything aside from that?

 

[Papalugy]

I play both 9th Age and Warhammer. In the beginning of 9th Age Saurians were competitive but then people whined about the Carnosaur and our poisoned shooting, and its just gone slowly down hill from there. To be fair most of our stuff has remained consistent it's just the Cuatl, Skink cohorts, and Bastilodon that have really been changing.

 

[Lawot]

What keeps me at the Saurian Ancients and the 9th Age?
A number of things:
1. In terms of core game rules, The 9th Age has been an overall improvement in balance and gameplay. Balance, to me, is a key part of fun, because I really enjoy facing a challenge and figuring out how to use what I have to overcome it. Armies that strictly dominate, or builds that strictly dominate, are therefore not fun for me.

2. Warhammer left Saurus Warriors in a terrible place. There was basically no reason to take any Saurus except that I liked the models. No matter what, Skinks were the better option. T9A has not fixed that yet, but they've made leaps and bounds. There are now people actually fielding Saurus, and doing so in large, medium and small units. As much as some other players seem to think that poison shooting is what Lizardmen are all about, I've always thought that Saurus Warriors are the heart and soul of the army, while Skinks were supporting troops. So the fact that I'm now fielding Saurus again, without feeling like a complete idiot, is big for me.

3. 8th Edition Lizardmen felt abandoned, too. Games Workshop did a hack job on our 8th Ed book, and it always felt like other armies got ways to make sure they could counter their weaknesses, while Lizardmen got ways to make sure we couldn't capitalize on our strengths. Again, T9A has not yet completely fixed that fundamental problem, but they're way ahead of GW.

4. T9A definitely makes me say, "What the hell were they thinking?!" on a regular basis. But they've made a lot of common-sense adjustments that give me hope for units I want to field. Why were Temple Guard the ONLY UNIT in the Lizardmen book that could take a magic banner? Elves, Men and Dwarves had choices even within their CORE for units to carry their own magic banners, while the inventors of magic couldn't figure it out? In T9A, Saurian Warriors, Skinks and Raptor Riders can all carry magic banners. Wow, now that makes sense.

So in short, in spite of all my frustration, 8th Edition left me concluding that the Skink Cloud was the only thing I could play, leaving all my favorite units in their boxes. T9A has created the basic structure of a Lizardmen army that can fight. There's a ways to go, but I think it will get there.

 

[Qupakoco]

Interesting discussion. I haven't followed 9th much, so this insight is good to hear. I really liked Saurus in 8ed. Especially under the new book with their shiny new predatory fighter rule. But to each their own! The skink cloud list with death magic was a pretty good one.