KoW Sallies 2k

[Lord-Marcus]

I request your thoughts.

+++ Lizard 2k (2000pts) +++

++ Salamander Armies 2E (Standard) (2000pts) ++

+ Regiments (1 War Engine/1 Monster/1 Hero per) (400pts) +

Kaisenor Lancers (10) (170pts) [Crushing Strength (1), Thunderous Charge (1)]
····Rules: Crushing Strength (n), Thunderous Charge (n)
····Profiles:
········Kaisenor Lancers: Unit Size:Regiment (10)|Height:2|Unit Type:Cavalry|Speed:8|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:4|Attacks:18|Nerve:14/16|UE p19

Salamander Unblooded (20) (115pts) [Crushing Strength (1)]
····Rules: Crushing Strength (n)
····Profiles:
········Salamander Unblooded: Unit Size:Regiment (20) (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Infantry|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:4|Attacks:12|Nerve:13/15|UE p18

Salamander Unblooded (20) (115pts) [Crushing Strength (1)]
····Rules: Crushing Strength (n)
····Profiles:
········Salamander Unblooded: Unit Size:Regiment (20) (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Infantry|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:4|Attacks:12|Nerve:13/15|UE p18

+ Hordes & Legions (1 War Engine+1 Monster+1 Hero per) (825pts) +

Ancients on Rhinosaurs (6) (300pts) [Crushing Strength (2), Thunderous Charge (2)]
····Rules: Brutal, Crushing Strength (n), Thunderous Charge (n)
····Magic Artefact (25pts) [Blessing of the Gods (25pts)]
········Rules: Elite
····Profiles:
········Ancients on Rhinosaurs: Unit Size:Horde (6)|Height:3|Unit Type:Large Cavalry|Speed:7|Melee:3|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:18|Nerve:-/18|UE p19
········Blessing of the Gods: Notes:Confers the Elite special rule.|KoW p80

Salamander Primes (40) (260pts)
····Rules: Pathfinder
····Magic Artefact (30pts) [Brew of Strength (30pts)]
····Shields [Crushing Strength (1)]
········Rules: Crushing Strength (n)
····Profiles:
········Salamander Primes: Unit Size:Horde (40) (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Infantry|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:25|Nerve:21/23|UE p18
········Brew of Strength: Notes:This unit has Crushing Strength (1), or if this unit already has Crushing Strength, it is increased by 1 (NOT already in profile).|KoW p80

Salamander Primes (40) (265pts)
····Rules: Pathfinder
····Magic Artefact (35pts) [Orcsbain's Amulet of Thorns (35pts)]
········Rules: Phalanx
····Shields [Crushing Strength (1)]
········Rules: Crushing Strength (n)
····Profiles:
········Salamander Primes: Unit Size:Horde (40) (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Infantry|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:25|Nerve:21/23|UE p18
········Orcsbain's Amulet of Thorns: Notes:Confers the Phalanx special rule.|KoW p81

+ Heroes (you MUST manually validate quantity) (775pts) +

Battle-Captain on Rhinosaur (150pts) [Crushing Strength (2), Thunderous Charge (2)]
····Rules: Brutal, Crushing Strength (n), Thunderous Charge (n)
····Magic Artefact (15pts) [Pipes of Terror (15pts)]
········Rules: Brutal
····Profiles:
········Battle-Captain on Rhinosaur: Unit Size:1|Height:3|Unit Type:Hero (Lrg Cav)|Speed:7|Melee:3|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:6|Nerve:13/15|UE p21
········Pipes of Terror: Notes:Confers the Brutal special rule.|KoW p79

Clan Lord on Fire Drake (315pts) [Breath Attack (16), Crushing Strength (2), Thunderous Charge (1), Winged (45pts)]
····Rules: Crushing Strength (n), Fly, Inspiring, Nimble, Thunderous Charge (n)
····Magic Artefact (35pts) [Ensorcelled Armour [H] (35pts)]
····Profiles:
········Clan Lord on Fire Drake (Winged): Unit Size:1|Height:4|Unit Type:Hero (Mon)|Speed:10|Melee:3|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:8|Nerve:15/17|UE p20
········Breath Attack (6): Notes:Ranged attack with (n) dice rather than Attacks value, unless listed as (Att). 12" range, always hits on 4+ regardless of modifiers.|KoW p72
········Ensorcelled Armour [H]: Notes:Limited to Heroes. This unit's Defense is improved by 1, to a maximum of 6+ (NOT already in profile).|KoW p81
········Winged: Notes:This unit has its Speed increased to 10, and gains the Fly and Nimble special rules (All changes already in profile).

Ghekkotah Skylord (130pts) [Blowpipe, Does not have Crushing Strength, Inspiring (Ghekkotah only)]
····Rules: Fly, Nimble, Vicious
····Profiles:
········Ghekkotah Skylord: Unit Size:1|Height:3|Unit Type:Hero (Lrg Cav)|Speed:10|Melee:3|Ranged:3|Defense:4|Attacks:5|Nerve:11/13|UE p21
········Blowpipe: Notes:Treat as thrown weapons (12" range, no -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting).

Herald (60pts)
····Rules: Individual, Inspiring, Nimble
····Profiles:
········Herald: Unit Size:1 (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Hero (Inf)|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:1|Nerve:10/12|UE p21

Mage-Priest (120pts) [Bane Chant (2) (15pts), Crushing Strength (1), Fireball (10), Heal (3) (15pts)]
····Rules: Bane Chant (n), Crushing Strength (n), Elite, Fireball (n), Heal (n), Individual, Nimble
····Profiles:
········Mage-Priest: Unit Size:1 (25x25mm)|Height:1|Unit Type:Hero (Inf)|Speed:5|Melee:4|Ranged:-|Defense:5|Attacks:2|Nerve:10/12|UE p21


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[BAE]

Would you be able to list them out without all the stats please? It's rather confusing otherwise. Just unit, size and any upgrades / magic items.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

 

[BAE]

The first thing that jumps out at me is that I would see Bane Chant and Brew of Strength as points wasted - the one thing Sallies have a lack of is CS, so spending points on more seems inefficient. Second, you only have 10 drops - this will mean being constantly out-deployed by opponents. Elite armies usually have 12-13, with less elite going up to 14-15. Third, you have no chaff - Unblooded is the nearest you've got, but their nerve is a touch too high.

I think the main concern I have is not being able to work out how this collection of units would function together. For example, in my list (you can find it elsewhere), but Lord denies a flank, my Mage Priest w/ Surge, GFE and FEs work together to do all sorts of surge trickery, Fire Drake & Lekelidon shoot over the units in front etc.. - essentially every unit has a role. What strategy did you have in mind with your list?

 

[Lord-Marcus]

The unblooded were my chaff. Ghekkos seemed too easily routed to hold up as a first line. Unless the point of chaff is to break, in which case we can reshape the list.

 

[Negator]

well thats a way to do it lol

 

[BAE]

The ideal use of chaff is when they rout after being charged, thereby allowing a hammer unit behind the chaff to charge the opponent's unit now in front of the hammer. If chaff's Nerve is too low they will rout from a few ranged attacks, opening up the hammer too early and allowing the opponent to attack them. If chaff's Nerve is too high they might not break when charged, holding up your hammer. 12/14 seems to be the average sweet spot between these two extremes - against heavily ranged (dwarf gun line) armies they will still get killed in turn 1, and against low melee (goblin) armies they still might not break when charged, but on average it seems to be there or there abouts. If you're aiming to play in tournaments you need to set up an army that will be able to deal with a wide range of armies and styles because you won't know what armies you are facing until they are on the board.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

The ideal use of chaff is when they rout after being charged, thereby allowing a hammer unit behind the chaff to charge the opponent's unit now in front of the hammer. If chaff's Nerve is too low they will rout from a few ranged attacks, opening up the hammer too early and allowing the opponent to attack them. If chaff's Nerve is too high they might not break when charged, holding up your hammer. 12/14 seems to be the average sweet spot between these two extremes - against heavily ranged (dwarf gun line) armies they will still get killed in turn 1, and against low melee (goblin) armies they still might not break when charged, but on average it seems to be there or there abouts. If you're aiming to play in tournaments you need to set up an army that will be able to deal with a wide range of armies and styles because you won't know what armies you are facing until they are on the board.

I am looking for a good tournament list, both with and without 25% ally usage. The only things I want kept in the list are:

An clan Lord on fire Drake
Ancients on rhinosaurs

 

[Itepixcauh]

I am looking for a good tournament list, both with and without 25% ally usage. The only things I want kept in the list are:

An clan Lord on fire Drake
Ancients on rhinosaurs

This might help you.

One of the top UK players created this two lists for competitive play with a description on how to use them:

Centre,

The two Fire Elemental Hordes with the Mage-Priest provide a solid hard hitting centre. They can both pack a punch and take it too. Surge tricks allow a great defence vs flyers or other units that try to sneak past. These will move up using terrain (Pathfinder) as possible.

Off centre,

A Lekelidon either side allows them to link up with the Fire Elementals or the flank units as needed. Note these will distract and annoy and also make nice chaff, being cheap and sacrificial.

Near Flank 1

Salamander Primes, Ghekkotah Warriors and a Herald. This force will mostly annoy and delay, if possible I will try to engineer a flank charge for the Salamander Primes, I’ll sacrifice any of these as needed but the Ghekkotah Warriors & Herald will be first to go, not forgetting the Lekelidon too. Also as needed we can have the Fire Elementals surging in to flank units concentrating on these.

Near Flank 2

Ancients on Rhinosaurs Horde and a Herald. The Ancients are hard hitters, and can combine with either surging Elementals or the Nearby Fire Drake. Again the Herald can be thrown away as needed to ensure a good match up, and meanwhile Inspires/shoots as needed.

Far Flank 1 & 2

Finally we have the Two Clan Lord's on Fire Drake's, while they could be combined nicely I prefer the flexibility of having one either flank, each can then link up with the Near Flanks as needed. Getting a flank charge onto something worthwhile should be relatively easy however don’t overlook the whopping Breath attack, it may well be better to overfly the enemy face a flank/rear and breath attack something. I will advance these first turn just out of range of whatever is facing them, unless it’s weak chaff, it which case I’ll sit in difficult terrain if possible and let it charge me.

Overall

As a whole the army hits quite hard and has tons of cheap chaff, it's maneuverable, has surge tricks, and a surprising amount of shooting! Between the two Clan Lord’s on Fire Drake’s the two Lekelidon’s and the two Heralds, you have enough to start doing something noticeable, especially if you combine targets. Effectively you could target 1 unit on each flank depending on other factors with Breath 16, Firebolt 5, and the Heralds single attack for good measure, this will rarely happen as you’ll be positioning etc, but it’s nice to have the option.

12 deployments is also reasonable for 2K, nice middle of the range.

If I took this army to a tournament I would expect to do well, it has everything I need, and provides me with a flexible force capable of taking on a variety of enemy armies.

It’s very similar but with this list the 2nd Clan Lord on Fire Drake is replaced with a Speed 9 Kaisenor Lancers Regiment, it’ll perform the fast threat I wanted similarly and is more effective in the front than the Lord would have been. The extra points allow me to upgrade the Ghekkotah Warriors to a Horde, these are now much more substantial blockers that could sit in difficult terrain etc. Also I’ve made the remaining Clan Lord on Fire Drake Def 6.

 

[Rapax]

I use something very similar. I am experimenting with different units, but right now my army looks like this:

Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Salamander Primes (regiment)
Ancients (regiment)
Fire Elementals (horde) with Blessing of the Gods
Fire Elementals (horde) with Pipes of Terror
Ancients on Rhinosaurs (horde) with Maccwar's Potion of Autoinclude
Lekelidon
Lekelidon
Herald
Herald on Kaisenor
Mage-Priest on Kaisenor with Inspiring Talisman and Surge
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Ensorcelled Armour

In my group we are pretty casual. I haven't really played against any tournament optimized lists, so I can't tell you if it's competitive or not.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I use something very similar. I am experimenting with different units, but right now my army looks like this:

Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Ghekkotah Warriors (troop)
Salamander Primes (regiment)
Ancients (regiment)
Fire Elementals (horde) with Blessing of the Gods
Fire Elementals (horde) with Pipes of Terror
Ancients on Rhinosaurs (horde) with Maccwar's Potion of Autoinclude
Lekelidon
Lekelidon
Herald
Herald on Kaisenor
Mage-Priest on Kaisenor with Inspiring Talisman and Surge
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Ensorcelled Armour

In my group we are pretty casual. I haven't really played against any tournament optimized lists, so I can't tell you if it's competitive or not.

That is I think a very solid list, it has everything you need, except maybe fast chaff but that is something we just don't have access too.

 

[Rapax]

The lack of fast and maneuverable chaff is something that really hampers the list (and the Salamander army in general), I think. I am considering allying in some Herd for Beast packs or Harpies. Tribal hunters provide a cheap enough unlock that I don't feel like I have to get them inspired or find a dedicated role for them.

 

[Itepixcauh]

The lack of fast and maneuverable chaff is something that really hampers the list (and the Salamander army in general), I think. I am considering allying in some Herd for Beast packs or Harpies. Tribal hunters provide a cheap enough unlock that I don't feel like I have to get them inspired or find a dedicated role for them.

I was actually considering the exact same thing. Run a regiment of Tribal Hunters (old metal skinks) and two troops of Beast Pack (Skink coldone riders) that is about 250 points, so not really that much. The only thing that is keeping me from doing it is that you are investing those points into troops that aren't really any good in combat and don't give you any useful unlock either, I will test it for sure, just don't know when

 

[BAE]

I am looking for a good tournament list, both with and without 25% ally usage. The only things I want kept in the list are:

An clan Lord on fire Drake
Ancients on rhinosaurs

Why the attachment to the Ancients on Rhinosaurs? With a speed of only 7 they will find it extremely difficult to ever make the first charge (because anything else in the game that is mounted will out range them), so you should probably discount the TC. That being the case, compare them with Fire Elementals. For the sake of proper comparison, let's include Maccwar's on the Rhinos (both because it's autoinclude and the Elementals have Pathfinder as standard) and Pipes of Terror on the Elementals (so both have Brutal).

As such, Rhinos have +1 Sp and +1 Ne for 295 points rather than 215 points. In my eyes, +1 SP & +1 Ne is not worth 80 points. Brew of Courage & Brew of Haste are 15 pts each, so if Fire Elementals were able to have multiple items they would cost 50 points less to have exactly the same stats. The only difference left would be the ability to march vs. the ability to be surged, and surging is far, far more useful!

 

[Itepixcauh]

Why the attachment to the Ancients on Rhinosaurs? With a speed of only 7 they will find it extremely difficult to ever make the first charge (because anything else in the game that is mounted will out range them), so you should probably discount the TC. That being the case, compare them with Fire Elementals. For the sake of proper comparison, let's include Maccwar's on the Rhinos (both because it's autoinclude and the Elementals have Pathfinder as standard) and Pipes of Terror on the Elementals (so both have Brutal).

As such, Rhinos have +1 Sp and +1 Ne for 295 points rather than 215 points. In my eyes, +1 SP & +1 Ne is not worth 80 points. Brew of Courage & Brew of Haste are 15 pts each, so if Fire Elementals were able to have multiple items they would cost 50 points less to have exactly the same stats. The only difference left would be the ability to march vs. the ability to be surged, and surging is far, far more useful!

Well you are forgetting they hit on 3s rather than 4s, which is a huge difference and I wouldn't throw the TC out of the window that easily, use a troop of hunters as a shield and job done. I really understand why people like them, in a charge they are devastating. They are just not as easy to use as your other cavalries out there (the same applies to the rest of the army)

Maybe I'm just playing the devils advocate here as I don't use them, but I like them a lot. That being said FE are just so good...

 

[BAE]

Well you are forgetting they hit on 3s rather than 4s, which is a huge difference and I wouldn't throw the TC out of the window that easily, use a troop of hunters as a shield and job done. I really understand why people like them, in a charge they are devastating. They are just not as easy to use as your other cavalries out there (the same applies to the rest of the army)

Maybe I'm just playing the devils advocate here as I don't use them, but I like them a lot. That being said FE are just so good...

I completely missed the difference to hit! As Brew of Sharpness is 45pts that's only 5pts difference, so maybe they aren't such a terrible proposition after all! It would be good to see how people fared with them in the tournament scene or with veteran tournament players.

p.s. FEs are the absolute business. At some point I may try playing a slightly FE-heavy list. Something along the lines of:

- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Greater Fire Elemental
- Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake w/ Ensorcelled Armour
- Herald w/ Diadem of Dragon Kind
- Mounted Mage-Priest w/ Surge
- Mounted Mage-Priest w/ Surge
- Mage-Priest w/ Surge & Inspiring Talisman

Exactly 2000pts. Maybe replace one of the Fire Elemental hordes with 2 regiments of Ghekkotah Warriors.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I completely missed the difference to hit! As Brew of Sharpness is 45pts that's only 5pts difference, so maybe they aren't such a terrible proposition after all! It would be good to see how people fared with them in the tournament scene or with veteran tournament players.

p.s. FEs are the absolute business. At some point I may try playing a slightly FE-heavy list. Something along the lines of:

- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Fire Elementals Horde
- Greater Fire Elemental
- Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake w/ Ensorcelled Armour
- Herald w/ Diadem of Dragon Kind
- Mounted Mage-Priest w/ Surge
- Mounted Mage-Priest w/ Surge
- Mage-Priest w/ Surge & Inspiring Talisman

Exactly 2000pts. Maybe replace one of the Fire Elemental hordes with 2 regiments of Ghekkotah Warriors.

Yeah, the list needs some chaff badly. but I would love to see how it does.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

I am Stuck on them because I have open trades for 3 more carnosaur kits to make into a horde of em.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I am Stuck on them because I have open trades for 3 more carnosaur kits to make into a horde of em.

That would actually look amazing

 

[Lord-Marcus]

That would actually look amazing

It is planned to.