AoS Salamanders vs Razors in Thunderquak

[IggyStarhost]

Hi guys,

Was just thinking about this. With the thunderquake you’ll probably bring a slann when you use an EotG. And keep everything from the battalion close for the swift/savage.

Since you’re forced to take handlers and you want to keep them nearby to maximise the effect of the battalions. Wouldnt salamanders be extremely good with rerolls of 1 to hit with the constelation and rerolls to wound rolls for the battalion at -2 rend? Just to rip trough those elite units who dare to approach your engine and basti’s?

With a unit of four, 2 or 3 attacks would get through being 2-3d6 damage and 50% of another d6.


You do lose the ability to teleport and shoot, where razors are super good at. But I rather do that with razors outside of the battalion.

And also do you feel we optimize are artillery unites enough? Salamanders seemnvery nice against high saves and razors against low saves.

Woukd love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Aginor]

Razors aren't bad against better armor either, at least if they are close.
Their average damage is just higher. With all the hordes running around I think that Razordons are generally the better choice.
Also their range is not dependent on the handlers.

 

[Canas]

Razors aren't bad against better armor either, at least if they are close.
Their average damage is just higher. With all the hordes running around I think that Razordons are generally the better choice.
Also their range is not dependent on the handlers.

Razors have the law of large numbers helping them as they generally have a large amount of attacks. A bad attack roll does ruin them though...

 

[IggyStarhost]

Accidental post. How do I delete?

 

[IggyStarhost]

Razors have the law of large numbers helping them as they generally have a large amount of attacks. A bad attack roll does ruin them though...

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong or I didnt explain it properly. Outside the Thunderquake the Razordon preform consistantly better.

To me the reason why I should take Razordons over Salamanders in general is:
- Dont need handler to have 12 inch range
- Can teleport and shoot
- More consistant

Although inside the thunderquake you are forced to take handlers. So both have 12 inch range.
With the Great Drake constellation the handlers of Razordons are just chaff/meatshields.

Within the thunderquake I want to keep them nearby for maximum damage, So wont teleport them.
Leaves the consistancy.

Below here are calculations how 4 Razors perform vs 4 Salamander in a Thunderquake rerolling wound rolls and hit rolls of 1 with the great Drake at a decent range.

Vs unit with 4+ save:
Razordons do on average 8,2 wounds after saves. (28*(28/36)*(27/36)*(3/6)

Salamanders:

chance d6 damage
All hit 0,11 14
3 hit 0,32 10,5
2 hit 0,36 7
1 hit 0,18 3,5
0 hit 0,03 0

So vs a 4+ save unit salamanders have a 43% to perform better. Approx 36% chance to perform slightly worse. and 21% to perform way worse.
Which seems quite good.


Vs unit with 3+ save:
Razordons do on average 5.4 wounds after saves.

Salamanders:

chance d6 damage
All hit 0,05 14
3 hit 0,21 10,5
2 hit 0,37 7
1 hit 0,29 3,5
0 hit 0,08 0

So vs a 3+ save unit salamanders have a 63% to perform better. Approx 0.29% chance to perform worse. And 8% to perform way worse.
Which seems quite good.


Vs unit with 2+ save:
Razordons do on average 2.7 wounds after saves

Salamanders:

chance d6 damage
All hit 0,01 14
3 hit 0,11 10,5
2 hit 0,31 7
1 hit 0,39 3,5
0 hit 0,18 0

So vs a 3+ save unit salamanders have a 82% to perform better. Approx 18% chance to perform slightly worse.

I know we wont see a lot of 2+ Saves. But looking at how many units can have a 3+ save which form a bigger threat to bastiladons/stegadons than alot of low save units. I think salamanders can have a good role within a thunderquake as elite counters.
Eventhougt at 4+ save units I would say I like the odds 79% to perform about the same or better.

And I have added It Burns to the calculation, but as you can see vs 3+ and 4+ it's almost 50% of another d3 wounds.
I know the Razordons have Piercing barbs within 6 inch. But I think with a thunderquake you should works with screens at keep the enemy at a distance.


Let me know what you think!

 

[Killer Angel]

To me the reason why I should take Razordons over Salamanders in general is:
- Dont need handler to have 12 inch range
- Can teleport and shoot
- More consistant

Although inside the thunderquake you are forced to take handlers. So both have 12 inch range.
With the Great Drake constellation the handlers of Razordons are just chaff/meatshields.

That's true. When forced to pick handlers for the starhost, Sallies gains more.
Unless you don't want to aim for a constellation different from the Drake...

 

[Slanntastic]

I have been taking sallies in my Thunderquake. I usually have the Slann as my general with the double teleport. On turn 2 or 3 after my opponent has spread out a bit and left some gaps I have been teleporting the sallies and the handlers to where ever they are needed and they have been doing work. Unfortunately this usually gets them out of range of the Thunderquake buff (which is kind of the point of your whole post...) but it has still been pretty effective.

 

[IggyStarhost]

If it serves the purpose. Would love to teleport them with handler over to that Celestant on Dracoth to finish him off!