7th Ed. Salamanders or Kroxigors

[chunky]

I can't make my mind up on which to buy, I think that the salamanders would be better since my normal opponent is a skaven player. I'm not sure though because i've heard about Skrox units coming in the flank and cracking alot of skulls. I would like to know which is better suited vs Skaven.

 

[spacelizard]

2 Sallies w/ 4 handlers each is going to run you about the same as 3 Krox, so in theory, those two should be equally effective. The real question is what the rest of your army consist of. If you don't have much in the way of shooting to start with, then go with Salamanders. If you want a hammer unit, go Krox. If you want some beef for your skinks, go Krox. If you want skirmishers that arent' just annoying but also bring the pain, go Sallies. All four of those questions are equally applicable whether you fight skaven or not.

As far as the rats go, your best bet against the furnace is a giant bow on a steg. Failing that, I'd say salamanders (preferably assisted by skinks) to kill the rats pushing it. As far as the rest of the skaven army goes... I can't give you definite answer.

 

[chunky]

thanks, sorry for the lack of info on my skaven enemies army but he's been switching it around allot that the new edition came out, I'm mostly concerned about his big clan rat blocks and which would be better to whittle them down so its a fairer fight for my saurus. I'm leaning towards having the 2 sallies backing up my blocks and then possibly going after other units?

 

[Stegadeth]

Are Clan Rats immune to psychology? If not, Salamanders can be quite effective for what you want to do in that they cause a panic test if they inflect even one wound. There is hardly a more efficient way to whittle down an enemy than by making his units flee in a panic, especially if you had the foresight to work a unit of say terradons behind them.

 

[chunky]

I'm pretty sure that they are not immune, the plague ones possibly but he doesn't field those. Ya but the only thing is the skaven get added leadership per bonus rank so I'm not sure if that I could cause to many panic tests but if i did it would be great. what i was hoping to do with the sallies was to get his static combat res down so that my saurus units can chop him up with his spears but I'm not sure if a skrox unit is better suited for killing more rats.

 

[Sebulba]

Well, I think that a salamander plus a kroxigor would be a good way to compromise at a low point level game!

So, 80 points for a salamander with extra handler for trying to get some panic tests and then 55 points for the kroxigor and stick him in with some skinks. That's a rare choice and then only one kroxigor in with your troops.

Just be careful what you charge because if you charge a unit that's 5x5 or something you will probably lose. These guys are great against non-T test skirmishers and smaller units of clan rats. Slaves will blow up and kill a bunch of your skinks if your not careful.

Don't forget fear!

 

[spacelizard]

I'm pretty sure that they are not immune, the plague ones possibly but he doesn't field those. Ya but the only thing is the skaven get added leadership per bonus rank so I'm not sure if that I could cause to many panic tests but if i did it would be great. what i was hoping to do with the sallies was to get his static combat res down so that my saurus units can chop him up with his spears but I'm not sure if a skrox unit is better suited for killing more rats.

If your main concern is thinning out the blocks, salamanders are great for that. The main problem with salamanders is that Skaven will usually try to shoot sallies to death even before a steg. Meanwhile they're usually pretty confident they can out maneuver kroxigors. This means krox's have the advantage that they get underestimated, and are therefore ignored in favor of other targets until it's too late for your oppoonent.

By the way... clanrats are most assuredly NOT immune to psych (until you cast death frenzy on them).

 

[Bibamus]

uhhm... nobody assumes they can outmanouver krox's, but skavens understand that kroxigors are just rat ogres with a scaly skin save. same thing that happend to RO in the last edition happens to kroxigors now, hey get shot to death.
against a PF you'r best bet is the blade of realities as it does not have a LD value so it auto fails, otherwise spam poison works great as neither the furnace nor the priest have any for of save.
regarding sallies v korxigors.
sallies are nice and a well placed shot can take out a lot of clanrats ensuring a panic check at reduced Ld (he either has 9 or 10 with full ranks). if you can drop his ranks bellow +3 you should panic some units. kroxigors will either get shot to death or will be magiced to death, BUT... if they dont and manage to hit the flanks fo a skaven army you basically kill every unit you charge in the flank untill you hit the plague furnace or screaming bell units wich are unbreakable, so all in all i'd say go with what you know you can use best. both can be deadly but the only advantage salamanders have is their range thus survivability, otherwise go with kroxigors all the way, hit a flank and you won most of the times

 

[chunky]

I think i can use the sallies better due to the fact that they wont need to be as maneuverable as the kroxigors. I'm relatively new to warhammer so this is all great advice. thanks all

 

[spacelizard]

uhhm... nobody assumes they can outmanouver krox's, but skavens understand that kroxigors are just rat ogres with a scaly skin save. same thing that happend to RO in the last edition happens to kroxigors now, hey get shot to death.
against a PF you'r best bet is the blade of realities as it does not have a LD value so it auto fails, otherwise spam poison works great as neither the furnace nor the priest have any for of save.
regarding sallies v korxigors.

I didn't say "assume," I said "pretty confident." In other words, a good or even strong chance but not a definite one. When you've got 6 or 8 units that are each less than the cost of a single kroxigor, outmaneuvering becomes less a matter of dodging and more a matter of redirecting away from important stuff. That's the kind of outmanuevering I was talking about. As far as actually taking krox's out, yes, it will be ranged attacks rather than blades that do the actual killing (usually), but it's the cheap stuff that will keep them busy long enough for the guns to do their job. Either that, or the krox's will be smashing heads like nobody's business.

My point is, their guns and magic will probably be shooting at other things first, and unless they roll well (i.e. the guns and magic kill a lot early), they'll have to keep at least one of your heavy hitter's busy chasing slaves, and krox's are the most likely option for such tactics since they aren't cavalry (so stuff can reasonably outrun them), have a (relatively) wide frontage, and no shooting. I mean they ARE the least maneuverable hammer unit lizards have (since I don't call saurus or TG "hammer" units).

Also, blade or realities is great but is only usable if it's a list with lords. If you're not playing that many points then your best alternative is a regular steg (as in NOT ancient) for the furnace, and copious amounts of shooting for the monks pushing it. Even if you have the blade, a giant bow is a good unit if there are too many large targets for the old-blood to get to them all (i.e. redundancy is always nice). Poison spam also works but has the limitation of range and therefore requires slightly more care, hence my preference for the giant bow (should blow a furnace in 2-4 hits, but send the blade after the bell).

 

[Bibamus]

well with BS 3 and forcing the steagon not to march i dont relly like the giant bow, not to mention it wounds on a 5+ lowering the chances of killing something even more. poison (skinks) has an effective range of 18" since you can still move and double shoot in long range at large targets.
giant bow against the bell? you hit on 5's wound on 5's and he ignores half the wounds due to ward save (statistically) thus you have a 0.3267 chance of wounding either the bell or the seer in 6 turns, for teh same point cost you can get 33 skinks.
they need to be in 18" instead of 42" but they fire 396 shots, 66 auto wounds, 33 unsaved (that are randomise).

against a furnace: 0.6534 wounds in 1 game or 66 with the skinks.

both of these assuming both move and are in long range. even if the bow hits on a 3 the sitaution doesn't change enough to make it worth taking it for the towers alone. its true that it can hit more targets in a game if it kills its intended target but skinks can also kill a whole lot of plague monks and even the other monsters if they get in range who have the same save as the bell (abomination has regen, doomwheel has 4+ armor save)

i still advise skinks to kill the big things. as for shooting other things instead of kroxigors, while it may be true for jezzails or the odd cannon, the weapon teams will probably shoot at the korxigors due to the short range. this is especially true for the ratling gun that only has S4 so its much better gainst kroxigors than other monsters. if a warpfire thrower fires at a unit of kroxigors it has the potential to kill them all in 1 turn due to causeing D3 wounds

 

[JohnMavrick]

I don't have a skaven codex with me but I believe that any unit pushing a screaming bell or plague furnace becomes either immune to psycology, or stubborn. I'd safely bet on the stubborn but the ItP seems to fit.

 

[Bibamus]

they are actually unbreakable, they won't run. same with the furnace

 

[spacelizard]

I still advise skinks to kill the big things. as for shooting other things instead of kroxigors, while it may be true for jezzails or the odd cannon, the weapon teams will probably shoot at the korxigors due to the short range. this is especially true for the ratling gun that only has S4 so its much better gainst kroxigors than other monsters. if a warpfire thrower fires at a unit of kroxigors it has the potential to kill them all in 1 turn due to causeing D3 wounds

Duly noted on the weapon teams. They usually don't do much when I play skaven, and I'm used to them targeting regular troops anyway, hence my discounting them. As to the steg: first I admit to not running the numbers and looking more at the d3 wounds of the bow than it's cost effectiveness. That said, I wasn't calling the steg a replacement for skinks shooting. I still recommend skinks and was just noting a drawback.

Guess I like my steggy too much .