8th Ed. Salamanders and Units in Close Combat

[Sun Drinker]

Since the salamander flame template almost never starts out on top of an enemy unit (it can, but for this example let's say it isn't) can a player nominate to fire a salamander at nothing, and then have the artillery dice result in having the flame template over an enemy unit engaged in close combat? I know you cannot fire at a unit engaged in close combat, but in this scenario it is randomly determined as to whether it would land on the unit. What do you folks think?

 

[Gojira]

You need to nominate a target when placing the template. You can't target nothing and then have it travel into CC.

It would be considered poor behaviour anyway to do that, even at a tournament.

 

[Arli]

Does the poor sportsmanship count if you do target a unit and overshoot into CC? I have not been in that situation before, but I have had to restrain from shooting because I landed a unit of terradons behind my intended target (did not shoot because I couldn't risk hitting my terradons).

 

[Sun Drinker]

In other words, a target must be nominated before firing and it can't be in close combat. I've never used salamanders before, so I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing it right. As long as the target selected to be fired upon isn't in close combat (and there is at least a chance of only hitting the unit selected), is it alright if the flame template scatters onto a unit in close combat?

 

[strewart]

Yeah thats ok, if it happens to end up in a close combat then so be it. That can end up either good or bad for you.

There are occasions when you can claim all you want, but its pretty obvious you are targetting the first unit just to overshoot into the combat behind them. Generally that will just be a judgement thing and its hard to say either way, so as long as it is a fairly legit target out of combat there is no problem.

 

[Mezegis]

Would it be against the rules to intentionally fire into CC?

IE: Saurus and enemy block A are engaged. I march the Sallie up on a hill 6" to their flank. I then target enemy block B that is 20 inches away, which puts enemy block A directly in my line of fire. I obviously cannot actually hit Block B, but fire anyway knowing it’ll land in Black A.

Is that illegal, or just bad sportsmanship and rules loopholing?

 

[Arli]

Not illegal, but it is loop-holing. If you were overshooting into a unit in CC, I could see it. But not if the unit is between you and the target.

 

[strewart]

No, you are not actually allowed to declare actions when you know for sure they are out of range. This was first introduced in appendices of 6th ed, and I am 90% sure it is still floating around. By the same token, if you are 20" from a target you cannot declare a charge against it with your saurus who can't possibly reach it. Much harder to get away with the 'I thought it might be in' in 8th ed now that you can premeasure everything.

 

[Sun Drinker]

So, in summary, assuming I am declaring to shoot against a target I can hit and would actually like to hit that is also not engaged in close combat.... if it happens to smear more than 1 unit (or a different unit altogether) with the flame template (regardless of who all is in close combat) i'm cool right?

The reason I posted this in the first place is because I am a new user of salamanders and the type of lists I'm used to bringing and seeing involve at least 5 (often more) blocks of close-combat oriented infantry of 20 or more (at 2500 pts.) and as you can imagine, things get pretty messy pretty fast (with lots of units in combat with lots of other units all in close proximity) and it seems like a good portion of the time that flame template will be laying over multiple units/units i did not mean to fire on.

also, if an enemy unit in close combat is hit by the flame template (accidentally, of course), do they take a panic test for losing a model? if so, when would they take that panic test? would there be any other strange side-effects of killing models in a unit that is engaged in close combat (like modified leadership if they then lose combat in the following close combat phase? or possibly taking a test even if they won combat?)

Thanks again.

 

[strewart]

also, if an enemy unit in close combat is hit by the flame template (accidentally, of course), do they take a panic test for losing a model? if so, when would they take that panic test? would there be any other strange side-effects of killing models in a unit that is engaged in close combat (like modified leadership if they then lose combat in the following close combat phase? or possibly taking a test even if they won combat?)

Thanks again.

No to both, units in combat are immune to panic and only wounds that occur in the close combat phase count toward combat resolution, there are several other things that can cause wounds in combats including Doomwheel shooting, some spells and of course the engine of the gods, if it doesn't happen in the combat phase then it doesn't effect the combat.

All I can say about your facing lots and lots of units is try to get the salamanders on the flanks and shooting the turn (or 2) before the lines engage, there should be plenty of good targets. If it so happens that you have open targets and there are combats behind, well so be it.