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8th Ed. Salamander/Razordon' with regrowth

Varaconn
Jungle Swarm

Varaconn

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Hay I was just writing a new list and had some thoughts about what would happens if a sallie or razordons handlers die? You roll on the monster reaction table but then what happens if you where to cast regrowth on it, is it possible to ress the handlers as they aren't the monster? If they can be resurrected I assume the monster reaction would then be negated as the handlers are back.
Hope this hasn't been asked before
 
No, I do not think it has been asked before. That is a good question. I would say that the handlers would take control of the monster and the effects would fade. But, it does not say eiter way in the rules.
 
I agree with Arli. Since any hard rules are lacking I would play it like that.

However there are probably RAW-nuts out there who will point out (and corectly so) that the rules never say that the extra abbility disappears and therefor the salamander will keep his monster reaction ressult no matter what. I agree with that logic but dont think it is what is intended and would therefor play it like Arli said.
 
I would say you cannot because they are 2 seperate entities for example:

If you had a skink kroxigor unit and all the kroxigors died would you be able to res back kroxigors? I would say in units with 2 different entries within the unit you can only regrowth the unit entry when models are still present in the unit.

When all the handlers die with the monster reaction table it basically turns into a different unit and its just a monster (ignore that it ever DID have handlers.)
 
Except, I'm almost positive that regrowth states, "Start with multi-wound models first", or something to that effect. In regard to skink/krox that is.
 
The only thing the rule says about multiple wounds is basically you need to replace wounds on multi-wound models in the unit instead of making extra models. So you couldn't ressurect 3 kroxigors all on 1 wound you would need to completely res one back up to full wounds.
 
So the general consensus is that they can be ressed as long as the monster is restored to full wounds then the handlers. And the monster would then stop using any rules from the reaction table and continue as a normal unit of monsters and handlers?
 
Eck... I needs to be FAQ'd really no one has an answer I think as it's not covered =S I can't find anything that mentions about multiple types of model making up a unit with regrowth =/
 
I would say no, since handlers are ignored in "most gaming purposes"
 
Great Question; with two very good points.

This is my interpretation.

Since handlers are only considered wound counters for the unit, skinks can be regrown; skink wounds are really just salamander counters.

The rules states about salamanders;

lizardmen pg. 56 "If all the skink handlers are slain, then the remaining salamanders must take a leadership test, and if this is failed, roll on the monster reaction table".

Since the Monster reaction table is also very clear about what happens, if you roll:

-1-2 "uh" Monster fights on as NORMAL {hence handlers can be revived with good effect}, but, is subject to STUPIDITY FOR REMAINDER OF GAME.

-3-4 "GRRRRR" Monster is UNBREAKABLE. The monster WILL NOT MOVE FOR THE REST OF THE GAME, except that it will always turn to face towards the closest enemy in its movement phase and use any breath or other ranged weapon against the closet enemies within range if possible.
{so not an effective target to bring back in my opinion}

-5-6 "RAAARGH!" The monster fights on as NORMAL, but is subject to FRENZY AND HATRED of all enemies for the REST OF THE GAME (it can NEVER LOSE FRENZY), and will ALWAYS CHARGE closest Eligible target.
{So great! I can res. my handlers and go smash into someones flank!}
BRB pg. 106


So when your monster takes a reaction test, its a crap shoot as to if you want to bring handlers back. You always can- don't always want to.

Also, RAW if you res'd back one handler, just have to have him killed, the salamander would once again have no handlers, and once again would need to test to not roll on the table, and if he reacts would add another reaction: assuming you rolled something different.
 
I have come across this issue in a few of my games and this has become my interpretation of the rule.

Once any unit or part of the unit has had all of its models removed than it can no longer benefit from the effects of restoring wounds. Here are a few examples that I have modeled this logic after.

A unit of Skrox with 3 kroxigor can restore Kroxigor wounds when there are any number of Kroxigor still alive in the unit, however once they all perish and only skinks remain than you can not bring the Kroxigor back only the skinks.

A hero that joins a unit and is later on killed can not be brought back to life with the lore of life ability because he is dead and there are no other models exactly like him in the unit.

I think the same should hold true for skink handlers. They have all died and just like the Skrox are now basic skinks so the Salamanders/Razordons would be interdependent models. This also means that the monster reaction table result will still stand, and only the Salamanders/Razordons can have their wounds restored.

Just for fun lets take a look at the other side of the coin. Say that due to randomized shooting or combat that the monsters die leaving behind handlers (pick your own scenerio to how it happens) . The logic that we are using to res the handlers would say that we can use the skink models still present to bring back the Salamander/Razordon. While this is not even an option due to them being removed when the monster is slain it still poses the same question of logic.

Hope my opinion makes sense and would enjoy some feedback.
 
I'm still unsure as to how to interpret it, the spell says "target unit instantly recovers wounds" it doesn't really specify anything else. Maybe we just have to wait till GW FAQ it.
Thanks for all the responses, it still seems up in the air!
 
Handlers arent really wound counters (as warmachines crew are) and they are ignored in most gaming purposes
 
They are not ignored in close combat or shooting (being shot at, that is).
 
Arli said:
They are not ignored in close combat or shooting (being shot at, that is).
Click to expand...

Yes they are. You just get to pass wounds on to them, all close combat and shooting is done against the salamander's stat line and any wounds done are passed on to the handlers on a 5+.

In effect they are little disposable stabby ward saves, but you can't pick them out on their own.
 
True, but that does not mean that they are ignored. Although you cannot target them, they can still be hit (thus, not ignored).
 
you cant choose to hit them, so I'd say you cant choose to regrowth them either
 
I suppose the question is could you resurrect a slann who died in a unit of temple guard (assume duel slann :P)? When you put it like that I agree with the people who say at a troop of that type must be left in the unit...
 
My opinion is still that they can be regrown because they are part of the unit.

If a character is killed he cannot be resurected but a character is in himself a unit and is therefor not a part of the original unit. Since a champion in a unit can be resurected with the spell (even though he is different from the rest of the models) I would say that a kroxigor and a handler can be resurected as well as a skink in a skox-unit if they have all died.

Therefor I interpret the rules as being able to resurect any models that were originally a member of the unit (i.e. not a character but skinks on a stegadon).
 
Stegas skinks can hit and can be hitten, handlers can only hit, otherwise they are ignored


They are just 5+ ward counters. If they were wound counter, I'd say you can resurrect them, but since they arent I say you cant bring them back.
 
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