7th Ed. Rumored 8th edition changes

[lazylizard]

8th Edition

how often does GW make editions? is it like once every 2 years or something?

 

[novatomato]

Re: 8th Edition

It's more along the lines of every four to six years. 6th edition I'm pretty sure was around for six years, but mostly its four years.

 

[strewart]

Re: 8th Edition

Wow you are right, 6th was out for 6 years. I didn't think it was that long. They seem to be speeding up the production of new editions IMO, especially with 40k. But 4 year or so is a reasonable estimate.

 

[Barotok]

Re: 8th Edition

The longer the better in my opinion. GW already makes a nice profit from the products that they release. The faster they release them, the faster the gaming world is expected to turn over their stock of models. At least models don't drastically change from edition to edition (IE 6th Ed Sarus can't be used for 7th Ed Sarus).

I'm sure that GW's increased production speed is driven in part by their waning profit margins. Hopefully they can keep the quality of their work up to par.

 

[strewart]

Re: 8th Edition

Yeah they have to keep churning out new things or interest dies off, their main gaming base has already bought everything they can, and that is that. Warhammer is not really a consumable, like food you must keep buying. When you buy a model once, it doesn't decompose, so to keep the business going they must make a new version of it, a new version of the army books etc. It is why the rules will never be 'perfect' and balanced. If they do that, there will be nothing to improve on in another edition. The rules are just there to sell their miniatures.

 

[walach]

Re: 8th Edition

presumably also explains why the armies keep on getting more and more new units.

though in that case, wouldn't it make sense to keep making more new armies? or at least give the poor old chaos dwarves/dogs of war a book!

tbh nothing major has changed since 6th Ed, i find it suprising all the rumours for 8th Ed seem to point to major changes... guess we'll have to wait and see. though by most counts we shouldnt have to wait long, as it's meant to be out this year.

 

[Bibamus]

Re: 8th Edition

i quite doubt they can make all army books balanced even if they tried. also i don't see a problem with it, if they manage to do it they can just make new army books and keep selling. they get more money out of the new gamers than out of the veterans anyway. a veteran will only buy so many models in a period of time, while somebody relatively new to the hobby will buy a lot more to get a functional army. and then probably a new one.

 

[Maedhros]

Re: 8th Edition

There is a side effect of having older dedicated gamers though. And it is that these players populate the shops and help get new players into the hobby. Right now the warhammer club in my area is encouraging new players, making sample armies avaliable for folks to try it out and offering nice terrain to play on.

They certainly haven't made every model yet. There are the space wolf calvary, the varrious tryanids,or the terrifying Skaven abombination to name a few. For modeling quallity I still things are on the rise. The plastic stegs are great! The very recent plastic Trigon is also beautiful.

Regarding books, yes the new editions are there to make a profit. This is completly normal in the industry though. Fourth edition D&D was released for the same reason, and if you want a truely cash guzzling example look at college text books.

I honestly beleive that the designers of warhammer enjoy the game. Perhaps not their bosses but the people who write the codex's and make the models, or write white dwarf are just as into this (if not more so) than we are.

If GW isn't viable as a business our hobby isn't like to hang around long. Many folks decried the purchase of the D&D franchise by Wizards of the Coast (who I think is Hasbro) but the franchise has never been stronger.

 

[walach]

Re: 8th Edition

if you want a truely cash guzzling example look at college text books.

QFT there!

pretty much agree with that you said there. i really think that the people at GW love the game as we do, and if anything, hate having to try and balance the books.

 

[strewart]

Re: 8th Edition

though in that case, wouldn't it make sense to keep making more new armies? or at least give the poor old chaos dwarves/dogs of war a book!

Of course. But since it takes a rediculous amount of time, effort and money to make an entire new army, it is usually better to just remake the armies they already have and that are already popular. Plus you never know if a new army will actually sell well or not. Look at Ogres for example, they were a new army and not very popular. Chaos Dwarfs and Wood Elves had very small supporter bases and low sales, so CD are basically dead and it took WE around 10 years for an update. The poor old Dark Eldar of 40k last got a book in 1998 back in 3rd edition. On the other hand, Space Marines account for over 50% of all GW sales (yes, ALL sales not just 40k) thus they get new releases every few months.

Big changes are indeed forecast for 8th ed, but GW has also said that every 7th (and in some cases, 6th) edition army book will still be fully compatible with the new edition, so surely any changes can't be too significant. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Again, I will not pay 80-90$ for a rulebook, so if the rumours of cool HE's in the next starter box is true I will get that and have the rules, otherwise... Well, I'll get them elsewhere.

 

[walach]

Re: 8th Edition

aww, see i like having the big hardback books to smack people when they're rule lawyering too much

 

[Exodite]

Re: 8th Edition

well atleast gw aren't like say Wizards or Upperdeck where when new sets come out the old sets cycle and become useless.

however some of the miniatures that have come out in recent times I haven't liked like the empire swordsmen I bought some just to paint up for the sake of it, and to my dismay all the added gubbins on the photo's were already attatched to the models, which really dissapointed me hopefully they don't carry on that route as that route also hinders conversions as its difficult to remove a large chunk of model and still make it look alright.

 

[Arsenal]

Re: 8th Edition

Maybe it's just crap, but I heard a rumor that it had to do something with copyright law in the UK. Something about having to update the product every so often in order to maintain your complete rights on the property.

Sadly, if they keep making it, I will keep buying it.

Just a rumor note on what I have read/heard about 8th Ed:

-Magic Phase will go before movement (this could be justified by some of the new spells in the new Beasts book. In fact I heard that the Beasts book was made for 8th Ed, so it's mediocre now, but will be killer when the new edition hits)

-Something will happen to put the power back in the hands of big block infantry over the current multiple large deadly monster trend.

Again, just rumors...

 

[strewart]

Re: 8th Edition

Wow I haven't heard the one about magic being before movement.. That would be a little strange, but probably not a whole lot different. Just wouldn't allow you to get into a good position before casting a spell, but it would mean if something like flaming sword failed you can rethink your plan rather than sending that one guy against the unit.

Beasts are definitely made for 8th ed, so yeah it will be interesting to see what happens. Big changes to magic since the beasts easiest spell to cast is 7+, which is average for 2 dice so almost needs 3 to be reliable.

 

[Barotok]

Re: 8th Edition

I also heard a rumor at our games day this last weekend that sounds like a buff to big block infantry you were talking about. Apparently there is talk of having models from rearward ranks being able to join the combat before that side strikes back (IE you won't loose attacks for having low iniative). This could be very very good for the lizards who are in a sad place for initiative.

This is a speculative RUMOR

 

[Quillum]

Re: 8th Edition

The rumor I've heard about 8th edition is that you will only be able to use one kind of save, I.E. Ward, armor, regeneration. I believe that's how things are done in 40k currently...and if that's the case, I can breathe a little easier about that dreaded Blood Knight combo I've thus far had the fortune of avoiding.

 

[Arsenal]

Re: 8th Edition

The rumor I've heard about 8th edition is that you will only be able to use one kind of save, I.E. Ward, armor, regeneration. I believe that's how things are done in 40k currently...and if that's the case, I can breathe a little easier about that dreaded Blood Knight combo I've thus far had the fortune of avoiding.

That would be nice, but that we require a complete rehaul of every army book though. I know it's a rumor, but that would seem like a HUGE undertaking.

Here is the round-up I pulled from another board...

Some rumoured rules changes for 8th Ed
1) Army construction is moving back to percentages. (you may have 25% of your points spent on heroes, 25%-50% on core… etc.)

2) Expect many changes to the magic phase, including giving irresistable force a downside, while making miscasts harder to have but much more devastating.

3) The return of "lapping-around" in combat.

4) Speeding up of combat in general. A possiblity of introducing a type of combat familiar to Flames of War players, something in which there are no multi-turn combats. Instead combat is fought over and over again until one side is dead or breaks, all in the same round of combat. For example a 6x5 block of Saurus Spearmen fight a 3x6 block of Swordmasters of Hoeth. The Elves attack and kill the front rank of the Lizardmen. The 6 back rank spearmen attack, get luckly and kill the front rank of the Swordmasters, now the next rank of the Elves attacks, and so forth until one side breaks or is wiped out.

5) In general the design changes are said to make the game play faster and at least partial nerf Daemons of Chaos after the huge community backlash against them.

6) Infrantry will fight in 2 ranks, and if if armed with spears +1 rank as now. ie; 3 ranks Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.

7) Models in the front ranks will still be ale to fight back even if the chargers have wiped out the front rank. However if the charges wip out enough model to say damage the front 2 ranks those models may not fight back.

Examples on how this works...
1: A unit of 5 Chaos Knights charge 25 Empire Halbardeers (5 wide) and strike first. They kill 8 Habardeers. How many Halbareers get to strike back under the new rules? Is it the full 10 (stepping forward and fighting?) or is it only 2
A:10

2: 5 Chaos Knights of Khorne charge a unit of 15 executioners and kill 8. How many executioners strike back?
A:Assuming 5 wide, 7

3: A unit of sword masters charge 10 empire knights (5 wide) and kill three. How many knights strike back?
A:5

8) The possibility of guessing charge ranges eing brought in, like you guess for cannon ranges.

Again, all just rumors from the ether...

 

[Batu]

Re: 8th Edition

Some rumoured rules changes for 8th Ed
1) Army construction is moving back to percentages. (you may have 25% of your points spent on heroes, 25%-50% on core… etc.)

Heard this also. From a friend who works with GW.


3) The return of "lapping-around" in combat.
Heard this also. From a friend who works with GW

4) Speeding up of combat in general. A possiblity of introducing a type of combat familiar to Flames of War players, something in which there are no multi-turn combats. Instead combat is fought over and over again until one side is dead or breaks, all in the same round of combat. For example a 6x5 block of Saurus Spearmen fight a 3x6 block of Swordmasters of Hoeth. The Elves attack and kill the front rank of the Lizardmen. The 6 back rank spearmen attack, get luckly and kill the front rank of the Swordmasters, now the next rank of the Elves attacks, and so forth until one side breaks or is wiped out.

Unfortunatly he told me about this also. Personally I feel this will hurt the game terribly. Now you can not try to pin a unit and try to maneuver on it. Super elite infantry blocks will be unstopable. would really make the combat silly IMO. If they do this I will go back to 6th Ed combat.

5) In general the design changes are said to make the game play faster and at least partial nerf Daemons of Chaos after the huge community backlash against them.

6) Infrantry will fight in 2 ranks, and if if armed with spears +1 rank as now. ie; 3 ranks Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
This will really make elite multi attack infantry with spears nasty. (Saurus Block 6x4) will have 37 attacks. While a Empire State troop unit 5x5 is 15. or 6x4 18 attacks. That is as assinine as fighting until one breaks.

7) Models in the front ranks will still be ale to fight back even if the chargers have wiped out the front rank. However if the charges wip out enough model to say damage the front 2 ranks those models may not fight back.

Examples on how this works...
1: A unit of 5 Chaos Knights charge 25 Empire Halbardeers (5 wide) and strike first. They kill 8 Habardeers. How many Halbareers get to strike back under the new rules? Is it the full 10 (stepping forward and fighting?) or is it only 2
A:10

2: 5 Chaos Knights of Khorne charge a unit of 15 executioners and kill 8. How many executioners strike back?
A:Assuming 5 wide, 7

3: A unit of sword masters charge 10 empire knights (5 wide) and kill three. How many knights strike back?
A:5

8) The possibility of guessing charge ranges eing brought in, like you guess for cannon ranges.

Again, all just rumors from the ether...

Hopefully they do not try to dumb down fantasy to the level of 40k. While 40k is good for my children, it simply is not a good wargame rules set once your older then 15. A friend of mine who moved to oregon states "no one at his store will play fantasy since the math is too difficult and the rules too complicated." I about died laughing. It is sad that people can not play a game if there are rules that are even remotely complicated. WFB is almost a childs game. When comparing 40k or WFB to wargames say in the 80s (military simulation games) we are playing kiddy rules that have to be so basic they lose the wargame aspect and become a typical baord game. Anyone for monopoly??? Sad...very sad that kids/people today are so damn dumb they can not handle even mildly complicated rules.

 

[hellbreaker]

Re: 8th Edition

Well I've heard that magic is taking a hit. The supposed nerf coming the Daemons' way could probably support that as they sure are magic heavy!
The combat system gets me though. If that's what's going to happen I'm not sure I'll have quite a full understanding of what's going on. So it needs more thinking. I approve.

The poor old Dark Eldar of 40k last got a book in 1998 back in 3rd edition.

The book is 2nd edition though. Poor Druchii, GW hates them. But not as much as Squats! Haha.

Cheers!

 

[Skrox]

So alot of rumors going around about there being a character point limit in 8th edition of 25% of the total army points. Anybody know if this is likely to happen or not? I just started buying models and painting them for my LM army and it would seriously effect what I buy next.

I think this rule would be nice because it would take the focus off from the two or three crazily over powered models in your army and brings in the other 60+ models you had to paint to play the game. The downside however is you couldn't fit a slann and an engine of the gods into the same list even at 2500pts. And thats without any upgrades or items. It would essentially make the EOTG a lord choice because you couldn't bring a lord if you had one.