8th Ed. Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chaos

[Scalenex]

My friend is just getting into the WHF hobby. He has played a few demo games with borrowed models, but he is about a month away from actually being able to play his own army.

The demo games were slanted in his favor (my friend and I discovered that letting someone win their demo game gets them hooked faster), but he says he wants a competitive game. The catch is that I know EXACTLY what his army his since he chose an army list and bought models to build to it (in fact I see the army coming togehter every Hobby Night). I want to make something competitive against it without making something completely tailored against it. He may or may not end up playing my friend's Orcs and Goblins before me.

Specifically this one (Doombringers from Rothgar's WoC handbook):

Lords - 555 points
Daemon Prince, Chaos Armor, Chaos Familiar, Charmed Shield, Daemon of Nurgle, Daemonic Flight, Dragonbane Gem, Flaming Breath, L4 Wizard, Scaled Skin, Soul Feeder, Sword of Striking [Lore of Death]

Heroes - 250 points
Exalted Hero, BSB, Burning Body, Daemonic Mount, Enchanted Shield, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch

Core - 725 points
2 x Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle
2 x 5 Chaos Warhounds, Vanguard
18 Chaos Warriors, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Musician, Shields, Standard-Bearer (Banner of Swiftness)

Special - 550 points
2 x Chimera, Flaming Breath, Regenerating Flesh

Rare - 420 points
2 x Hellcannon

So here's what I have a quasi experimental Predatory Army.

Slann Mage Priest, Wandering Deliberations, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Channeling Staff, Iron Curse Icon, BSB Standard of Discipline

2 x Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Great Weaopon

2 x 26 Saurus Warriors with Full Command

7 Kroxigor with Ancient

27 Temple Guard with Full Command

2 x Troglodon with Divining Rod.

Is a list with two Troglodons too soft? I'm not taking any juicy targets for the Hellcannons and WD should be a very dangerous magical arsental against his army and the bulk of predatory units should synergize the Troglodon.

 

[JamJar]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

The list is very combat dependent, that means getting into combat ASAP without dying too much before hand

With two Trogs, I would add in Tetto, just for the vanguard. Getting the units in combat at the same time is crucial


If possible, an Engine could provide a 6++ bubble. Then the Saurus could take spears too

 

[GCPD]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

My friend is just getting into the WHF hobby....

Nurgle Daemon Prince of Fun; Third Eye 3++; Chariot Core; Double Chimera; Double Hellcannon

:/ That's a tough list for a newbie to pick out. All its missing are some Skullcrushers.

I feel your list is too soft, especially if your opponent wants a competitive game. I can only suggest looking at some of the more 'competitive' Lizardmen builds: Wandering Deliberations 3x Channel Slann; Tetto/Dispel Scroll Priest; Scar-vets with AoD and 1+ re-rollable; Skink Skirmisher/Cohort Core;massive Temple Guard unit; Salamanders.

 

[teufelhund]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

I think you need to tool up your cowboys some; a ward or armor save re-rolls and I think you need becalming cogitation on your slann at least although a beast priest would be better. You get a double up on wyssans and a scroll not too mention predatory fighter control; since you have zero skink characters. I think those points are probably coming from your kroxigor. Also your only ability to deal with regen is spells so maybe a flaming banner or ruby ring in case you break concentration. You also have no BSB; even against a new player your list is very soft. You have a lot of neat synergy ideas, but if it doesn't go to plan you don't have a lot in the toolbox. I think running a list without skinks is courtesy enough to new players; there is nothing more frustrating than getting constantly redirected. A fun bloody stand up fight is a good way to keep things interesting. So I applaud you for no skinks, but I would definitely have every other part of this list tweaked.

 

[Scalenex]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

The list is very combat dependent, that means getting into combat ASAP without dying too much before hand

If possible, an Engine could provide a 6++ bubble. Then the Saurus could take spears too

:/ That's a tough list for a newbie to pick out. All its missing are some Skullcrushers.

I feel your list is too soft, especially if your opponent wants a competitive game. I can only suggest looking at some of the more 'competitive' Lizardmen builds.

I think you need to tool up your cowboys some; a ward or armor save re-rolls and I think you need becalming cogitation on your slann at least although a beast priest would be better. You get a double up on wyssans and a scroll not too mention predatory fighter control; since you have zero skink characters. I think those points are probably coming from your kroxigor. Also your only ability to deal with regen is spells so maybe a flaming banner or ruby ring in case you break concentration. You also have no BSB Also the no BSB on the original list was a typo, oops. I had that and the Standard of Discipline; even against a new player your list is very soft. You have a lot of neat synergy ideas, but if it doesn't go to plan you don't have a lot in the toolbox. I think running a list without skinks is courtesy enough to new players; there is nothing more frustrating than getting constantly redirected. A fun bloody stand up fight is a good way to keep things interesting. So I applaud you for no skinks, but I would definitely have every other part of this list tweaked.

How about this?

Slann Mage Priest, Becalming Cognition, Forbidden Rod, Iron Curse Icon, Lore of Life, BSB

Scar Veteran, Cold One, Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon
Skink Priest L1 with Beasts with Dispel Scroll and Opal Amulet, EOTG Steggy, Sharpened Horns

2 x 26 Saurus Warriors with Full Command

6 Kroxigor with Ancient

25 Temple Guard with Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

Troglodon with Divining Rod

 

[teufelhund]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

I like it... Has a bit of an edge and the normal tricks he'll need to get used to playing against, but isn't discouraging. I'm sure you'll both enjoy the meat grinder as long as he isn't too discouraged by the massive difference in models. Let me know if you manage to pull off the trog, PF synergy trick. Have a great game!

 

[Scalenex]

Re: Rite of Passage Game 2500 points LM vs. Warriors of Chao

It worked out ideally. Game was a draw with very little units of either side on the table. He didn't make any major mistakes but I don't think I could have won with an experienced hand against the army. The next time I do a tournament I kind of want him to come with me, "This is my assistant, he is here to roll my armor and ward saves." His saving throw rolls were amazing. Course I had good luck with my EOTG Steggy. I rolled 6s whenever the Hellcannons hit it, and I was able to take out the Demon Prince with lucky impact hits. I was lackluster on sharpened horns, but now I see the value.

Troglodon didn't do great though I set up several combats with the Roar boost before he died. It seems whenever I take them, they eat a Purple Sun. Kroxigor killed a Hellcannon taking very few wounds in return then tying up his BSB.

My friend is going to design a different army list which is good because using an army list someone else designed is probably not good to do forever. He thought Rothgar's list was a little dull. He wants more infantry to move around and he felt uncomfortable with his general, primary fighter, and sole spellcaster being the same model. He also was somewhat less than impressed with the Lore of Death basically seeing it as Lore of Purple Sun.

I might put up a battle report, but I didn't have time to take flawless notes. My newbie friend played one of my more experienced friend the same night. His list versus Orcs and Goblins. O&G won a minor victory. He is really good with Dwarves but that's his first victory with his greenskins. That game had my friend's only major newbie mistake. He had a chimera flee an orc chariot when he should have stood his grand. I think my experienced friend really advanced his understanding of O&G and I now expect every one of his lists having 5-10 bolt throwers. At 17.5 SS, you don't need to hit often to make them worth the investments and they are so little points it's kind of an irritating speed bump to attack them. A constant barrage of crappy bolt thrower shots eventually weakened the Daemon Prince enough to let Grimgor beat him up.