8th Ed. RipperDactyls.

[kroxigor01]

Dark elves tend to have a peg character I can go after (who doesn't do enough wounds to stop at least a handful of killing blow attacks).

Character on Monstrous Beasts are Monstrous Cavalry and are immune to killing blow (and have a partially combined profile with the mount).

As for terradons, I have problems getting them to rally, and I'd rather use a 50 point cohort than a 105 points of terradons.

I would argue the Drop Rocks and the added redirecting ability given by Flying are easily worth the 55 points extra. Plus, Fast Cavalry rules mean that if you do rally you can block again.

Another option for Ripperdactyles is running a unit champ with them, and then a chief on a ripper.

Using RAW characters on a mount cannot join a unit of Skirmishers.

EDIT: Or a simpler ruling that I missed, characters can never join units of Flyers.

 

[Sleboda]

Using RAW Playing the game without cheating, characters on a mount cannot join a unit of Skirmishers.

 

[kroxigor01]

I said RAW because clearly a mistake was made in writing the rules. It was obviously intended that characters could join Terradon units, look at Tiktaq'to's rules.

Therefore I would say RAI his Ripper Chief is legal. Tell your opponent about the RAI and see if he will allow it. I think that is the only option.

 

[Pofadder]

It is less of a comparison of rippers vs terradons than a competition for those available points...and to be fair they have great movement but if I want to spend 120+ points on something that can fight I tend towards something thats actually good at it

Like a cowboy or add those points towards more TG etc.

These are greatly different unit types and played differently than rippers for example, but they can fight most things the enemy throw at me. And they do not have to search out blot toads to be effective either.

So I have my fighty units... hammer or anvil, my chaff, my monsters, etc etc, that can fulfill their roles well.

I think the glass cannon idea is cool but thy added too much glass and too little cannon.

That is just my opinion and neither here nor there though. Some guys love the rippers.

Also at 800 rand per box I like to know I get something that "pays the rent" in my army, not be situationally, possibly, useful.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Another option for Ripperdactyles is running a unit champ with them, and then a chief on a ripper.

Using RAW characters on a mount cannot join a unit of Skirmishers.

EDIT: Or a simpler ruling that I missed, characters can never join units of Flyers.

The chief isn't joining the rippers, he's just charging the same unit they are.
But having both character and a unit champ in the fight, the enemy unit champ cannot force the skink chief to accept the challenge.

I don't see why you'd want a unit of terradons to redirect.
For less points, you could be running a fast cav flying skink chief, doing the same job for less points; while packing a real armor save.

Unless you are at your limit on points spent on heroes, try a 84 point skink chief, instead of 105 in terradons.
He fills the same role, but can also restrain predatory fighters.

-Matt

 

[hdctambien]

The chief isn't joining the rippers, he's just charging the same unit they are.
But having both character and a unit champ in the fight, the enemy unit champ cannot force the skink chief to accept the challenge.

This is a pretty neat trick!

 

[kroxigor01]

I don't see why you'd want a unit of terradons to redirect.
For less points, you could be running a fast cav flying skink chief, doing the same job for less points; while packing a real armor save.

Unless you are at your limit on points spent on heroes, try a 84 point skink chief, instead of 105 in terradons.
He fills the same role, but can also restrain predatory fighters.

-Matt

You make a great point. However 3 drop more rocks than 1. I haven't used the Chief as you say, I will try it. What is the 84 point build? Best I can make it:

Chief - Terradon, light armour, Enchanted Shield, blowpipe 88 2+ save

These might be good if you want multiples:

Chief - Terradon, light armour, shield, Dragonhelm, blowpipe (2+ save) 95
Chief - Terradon, Shield of Ptolos, blowpipe (1+ vs shooting, 4+ in combat) 96
Chief - Terradon, light armour, shield, blowpipe (3+ save) 85

 

[Lizardmatt]

I'd go enchanted shield on one, dragon helm on another. If you want a third, you could take gamblers armor.
As for mundane, for me it's a toss up between spear and javelin.
BS5 S4 poison shot is great, but 3S5 attacks on the charge gives some flexibility too.
It is a bummer you can't take both.

-Matt

 

[hdctambien]

Luckstone and Opal Amulet are nice, cheap items to throw on a Terradon Chief too.

 

[n810]

Prety sure you can take a mundane ranged weapon with a mundane close combat weapon.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Prety sure you can take a mundane ranged weapon with a mundane close combat weapon.

Chief entry for gear says choose one: Spear,Jav, Blowgun.

-Matt

 

[n810]

Ahhh..... Thats new.

PS. could you take like, javelin and the sword of might or one of the other super cheep Magic weapons.

 

[Rollcage8]

Was trying to get opinions on a ripper chief.

Skink chief
+ripperdactyl
+shield
+spear
+stegadon helm

Thats 2+ AS with toughness 4 and 2 wounds

Strength 5 initiative 6 with d3 str 4 wounds on charge.
Ripper hits 3 times at armour piercing strength 4 with killing blow.

So thats a 7-10 attacks on charge at minimum strength 4.

Ive run a few match ups and he costs around 130 points.

Against 5 dark elf dark riders he easily wins, even with stand and shoot reactions.
Repeater bolt throwers or anything that shreds armour at -2 armour save starts to kill him fast.

Im a fairly new player but the stegadon helms seems to really beef him against equivalent point values because of armour save/toughness and strength being above average.

Not to mention frenzy makes him immune to fear/terror and he causes fear in regular troops as well.

 

[Pinktaco]

If you have other rippers on the board I assume the chief's ripper will benefit from the regular's toad.

Also remember that the impact hit is on the unmodified strength which is 4.

 

[Lizardmatt]

If you have other rippers on the board I assume the chief's ripper will benefit from the regular's toad.

Also remember that the impact hit is on the unmodified strength which is 4.

This is debated quite a bit. We're still waiting on a FAQ.

-Matt

 

[VampTeddy]

If you have other rippers on the board I assume the chief's ripper will benefit from the regular's toad.

Also remember that the impact hit is on the unmodified strength which is 4.

I do the helmet actually.

i know it's expensive, but it's a possible 1-2 extraCR; and as i see my chiefs as supporting units (the other has the egg) i wanted to test it out.

the +1 toughness also helps actually, since it makes the riders toughness the biggest (4) and makes it toughness 4 when hitting the model, not impressive, but better than 3.

 

[Sleboda]

If you have other rippers on the board I assume the chief's ripper will benefit from the regular's toad.

=> Why?

To me, this is another clear case of wishful thinking by those who hold that opinion.*

The rule that grants the Awesomesauce is "Toad Rage." This rule is not a rule for a generic beast calle the Ripperdactyl. This is a Special Rule in the "Ripperdactyl Rider" entry in the bestiary on p.43 (English edition) and is likewise referenced on p.93 in the Army List entry for Ripperdactyl Riders.

That's where the rule and that's the unit that benefits from it.

A Chief gets his ripper as an option in his unit entry. Within the Heroes section of the Army List section of the book, on p.87, there is a list of character mounts. This list includes an entry for "Ripperdactyl."
In this same section, in addition to the profile (which includes the Troop Type, which is why we get a Stomp for our Ripperdactyl-mounted Chief), we see a list of the Special Rules that apply to a Ripperdactyl (as opposed to a different unit type called "Ripperdactyl Riders), and this section does not include the Special Rule Toad Rage.

To summarize:
Toad Rage is a Special Rule granted exclusively to the unit type "Ripperdactly Riders" and not to a basic Ripperdactyl. If you claim Toad Rage for your Chief's Ripperdactyl, you have given that unit a rule it, as demonstrated, does not have.

I should also mention that for every argument that it was "clearly" left out, one could make a compelling argument that perhaps it was left out on purpose as some sort of acknowledgement that a Chief is a cut above a normal skink and has trained his special Ripper to exhibit some level of self-control. Fluff goes whichever way we want it to, but the rules are what they are.

* Note that like PF and some others, I fully believe that if GW ever does issue any information on the topic, it will work out to be in the favor of Lizardmen players. I'm not talking about future state, though, only what is in the book for all to read today.

 

[VampTeddy]

A Chief gets his ripper as an option in his unit entry. Within the Heroes section of the Army List section of the book, on p.87, there is a list of character mounts. This list includes an entry for "Ripperdactyl."
In this same section, in addition to the profile (which includes the Troop Type, which is why we get a Stomp for our Ripperdactyl-mounted Chief), we see a list of the Special Rules that apply to a Ripperdactyl (as opposed to a different unit type called "Ripperdactyl Riders), and this section does not include the Special Rule Toad Rage.

This is the reason i use terradon's instead.

I don't want to use a 2 attacks frenzied beast with by ld 6 hero on it, only to get killing blow on 6's - i find it much more worth it that my terradon's can still drop rocks, and look friggin badass with a chief on their back!

I do however lie in the camp that i feel the beats should be able to get the toad rage bonus - but i would never play by it, unless it was stated in the book - as such i also use the same harsh criteria's when my opponent's claim that something was intended in one way. [/quote]

I find several rules that are clear cut, don't nessecarily go by my logic, it's the same case with many of the special rules we have (toad rage, PF and the sorts).

 

[Lizardmatt]

The counter argument is that Toad Rage is the rule that tells you to place the Toad Marker.
Lacking the Toad Rage rule, the Chief on Ripper does not get to place a toad marker.
The effects of the toad marker are then explained; a Ripperdactyle fighting a unit marked with a toad gets +D3 attacks and re-rolls hit. This portion doesn't specify Ripperdactyle Riders, just Ripperdactyle.
IMO, the chief's mount gets the bonuses but doesn't place a marker.

-Matt

 

[VampTeddy]

The effects of the toad marker are then explained; a Ripperdactyle fighting a unit marked with a toad gets +D3 attacks and re-rolls hit. This portion doesn't specify Ripperdactyle Riders, just Ripperdactyle.
IMO, the chief's mount gets the bonuses but doesn't place a marker.

-Matt

under the rules for toad rage.

Exactly.

i don't see why this would imply anything other than the necessity to have before mentioned rule to get the usage out of it.

it is explained under the special rule, and under it's headline. It isn't presented under "Ripperdactyl" neither is it presented under "mounts" it is presented under Ripperdactyl riders"

It's a clarification, of what the rule does, a likewise clarification is stated under drop rocks on the opposite page, the difference being that terradons always get the drop rocks rule, as per the mounts page.