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7th Ed. Revered Guardians

I tend to lean away from one use items in general, it even took a fair while for people to convince me of the value of dispel scrolls. I especially dislike one use bound items, since the enemy can dispel them you can very easily pay the (usually) fairly significant points for an item that ends up doing literally nothing. I would prefer it to do at least something, even if it only does a tiny bit of damage.

I cannot remember who it was, but in another thread a nice idea was presented for the one use bound item, and that is to hold it just to make your opponent reserve dispel dice thus letting your other spells through easier, unleash it when they have saved no dice from other spells or just keep it the whole battle to make him hold dice back. That seems like a good use for it, but that is all I can see and on a unit champ that is heading straight for combat it is limited.

Aranigej, good idea. :) I was just thinking earlier today that I might have to think about a sig.
 
Definitely signature material this strewart!
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So now I have to read each of stew's posts to find a clever way to misquote him in my signature right? Isn't that how this game works?

The first thread I read this morning was a welcome thread. After noticing stewart's new signature, I nearly died of laughter. I'll be watching you stewart. ;)


On the subject of bound items, I had not thought of this use for the RG. If your characters are already kitted out at or close to their maximum allowed points then this seems like a feasible option. I struggle with bound spell items because of the fact that they only offer potential leverage. This leverage is only dependent on your opponent's list. True, that sometimes they will force your opponent to hold dispell dice to throw at a bound spell, meaning that maybe another one of your regular spells goes through. However, if your opponent is saving dice for your bound item, that means its a spell that will be particularly beneficial to you or there is an element of timing involved. If the bound item, is that crucial to your lists operation you'll probably want a model with more than one wound holding it.

If its just an extra item that you want your RG to have as a bonus, then having a RG hold it is fine. Just pick a time when your opponent has no more dispell dice. If the bound item is not that important, you won't find me spending points 'because I can' on giving my RG a bound item, in the off chance it might do something cool, or just might get dispelled. I personally would prefer to spend the points on troops that are guarunteed to do something (IE beef out my sarus blocks, add more skinks, etc).
 
Hey Barotok hope you didn't get the whole concept wrong re strewart's sig!!

Usually, in various forums (or fora), when someone says something cool/honorable etc. about you it is placed in the sig. It is not making fun of the original poster, but rather it is an honorable mention.

In this case, even though it is a misquotation, it fits perfectly as a sig!

Cheers!

Aranigej
 
strewart said:
I especially dislike one use bound items, since the enemy can dispel them you can very easily pay the (usually) fairly significant points for an item that ends up doing literally nothing.
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I have a question about this. When you attempt to use a One Use Only bound spell and it is dispelled, are you able to keep attempting to use it each turn until it actually goes off? Or are you limited to one attempt and that's it? Nothing I can see in the Magic Items section of the WFB Rulebook seems to indicate one way or another.
 
snowywlf said:
strewart said:
I especially dislike one use bound items, since the enemy can dispel them you can very easily pay the (usually) fairly significant points for an item that ends up doing literally nothing.
Click to expand...

I have a question about this. When you attempt to use a One Use Only bound spell and it is dispelled, are you able to keep attempting to use it each turn until it actually goes off? Or are you limited to one attempt and that's it? Nothing I can see in the Magic Items section of the WFB Rulebook seems to indicate one way or another.
Click to expand...

Yes it is expended, in the same way that attempting to cast a spell uses it up for the turn regardless of whether or not it is affective.
 
Forgive me if I sounded upset about the sig change. It wasn't meant to sound that way at all. As I mentioned I nearly laughed all day about it when I saw it. I'm also familiar with the reason he put it in there, thanks for clarifying though! ;)

Jive I think you need to take a second look at the way his question is worded because I don't think that you answered the sencond part of his question correctly.

are you able to keep attempting to use it each turn until it actually goes off?
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.

This part was answered correctly to my knowledge.

Or are you limited to one attempt and that's it?
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I don't have my rules in front of me at this point and because I don't use many of these items I'm not as familiar with the rules as I should be. From what I remember bound items may be used one time per magic phase. There are quite a few bound items in the LM rulebook that have the "Once per game" stipulation, in which you get one shot to use the item. If your "Once per game" attempt to use that item gets dispelled you do not get another chance. If someone can confirm this interpretation with the BRB that would be greatly appreciated!

*edit* grammar
 
Yeah once you use it, its used even if your opponent dispels it. The spell still goes off (thinking 'real' terms) but the enemy magician blocks it. Which is why I don't like them, its easy enough to dispel a bound spell, if it is going off every turn then fair enough, if it only works once.. It isn't useful most of the time.

Heh heh, I'll be watching my posts too Barotok. Lets see how you go. Good luck.




Barotok is a
You didn't think it would be that easy did you?
 
Thanks for the answers folks. One Use Only items seem like a waste of points unless you have so much magic in your army that you can guaranty wiping out his dispel dice.

And has anyone noticed that we get totally jipped on the Bound Spell items? The ONLY bound spell we have that isnt One Use Only is... Charm of the Jaguar Warrior, a self flight spell.
 
Gyped in bound items?? We got gyped in all magic items, this is why you commonly see a Slann capable of holding 100 points of items with either nothing or just the Cupped Hands. Most of the enchanted items and talismans are terrible and there is probably only one of the magic banners you would even consider unless you had a specialised use and tactic, the armour is nothing to write home about, we do have a few nice weapons though.
 
strewart said:
Gyped in bound items?? We got gyped in all magic items, this is why you commonly see a Slann capable of holding 100 points of items with either nothing or just the Cupped Hands. Most of the enchanted items and talismans are terrible and there is probably only one of the magic banners you would even consider unless you had a specialised use and tactic, the armour is nothing to write home about, we do have a few nice weapons though.
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Lizardmen were never famous for their magic armory....
At the moment i think Dark Elves have the best armory...with the biggest and baddest guns... :droid:
Anyways:
No, I don't like the one-use only items. Ever. Not on champions who, well quite simply, Die...
Never had any succes with them, so i stopped using them and bought more troops with the points. Troops pretty much always have succes :P

the Hunted
 
snowywlf said:
The ONLY bound spell we have that isnt One Use Only is... Charm of the Jaguar Warrior, a self flight spell.
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HOLY COW :jawdrop: !!!! I never noticed that, I always thought all bounds were 1-use :oops: !!! That just made my day :smug: :bored: (even though it was just one item :rolleyes: )!!!!!!!
With my RG, I usually give his the blood statuette, because it can character snipe anywhere on the board :clown: (although, the target has to have litttle toughness-but, with some armies ;) ...).
It does kind of use up extra points though... 5 Skinks... 2ish saurus...3ish skink skirmishers...

Hey!!! I just noticed!!! I'm a SKINK now!!!
 
Don't take anything. Waste of points. 25 points is 2 saurus with spears, a third of a razordon or three skinks. Blood Statuette is mabye kinda legitimate, then kinda not.
 
OR....
I realise my last post seemed mad final.But no.
Give him the enchanted shield.
Why---?
Character charges temple guard. Revered Guardian issues/accepts characters challenge. Revered Guardian uses hand weapon and enchanted shield [(2+) armor save]. This improved armor save has a chance to reduce the overkill the character gets against the temple guard unit, hence increasing the tg's combat resolution in regards to their opponents unit.
Then theres the chance you'll randomly get lucky and bounce the character.
This is basically leet hax.
 
thesecondman said:
OR....
I realise my last post seemed mad final.But no.
Give him the enchanted shield.
Why---?
Character charges temple guard. Revered Guardian issues/accepts characters challenge. Revered Guardian uses hand weapon and enchanted shield [(2+) armor save]. This improved armor save has a chance to reduce the overkill the character gets against the temple guard unit, hence increasing the tg's combat resolution in regards to their opponents unit.
Then theres the chance you'll randomly get lucky and bounce the character.
This is basically leet hax.
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I think the enchanted shield pushes him to 1+ armor, since he'll get the +1 for hand weapon and shield. I know the weapon can't be magical, but I think the shield can be and still give the bonus.

That said, I'm not so sure I'd spend the extra points on the guardian. If it's a seriously nasty character the champ is going to die anyway, and you just give up 15 extra points for him. If it is a character that isn't nasty, well then he's screwed anyway for charging TG. Having champions in a stubborn/ITP unit is typically a good idea, since it tends not to matter too much if you lose combat with the Slann BSB nearby.
 
Its not to keep him alive, its to reduce overkill bonus. Its really good.
One save that the shield gives him over a normal shield is +1 combat rez.
Additionally, if a crappy character charges him, its still better. And it increases the chance he will defeat another unit champion in a challenge, allowing you to challenge a good character next turn.
 
thesecondman said:
Its not to keep him alive, its to reduce overkill bonus. Its really good.
One save that the shield gives him over a normal shield is +1 combat rez.
Additionally, if a crappy character charges him, its still better. And it increases the chance he will defeat another unit champion in a challenge, allowing you to challenge a good character next turn.
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All of this I am accounting for, but seeing as temple guard are a very static unit and you are referring to a situation where they are being charged, then this implies a few things. If they are being charged, it is because the opponent has chosen to charge and thinks he can win combat (he has taken the initiative to charge). Since they are stubborn, it does not matter if the champion saves 2 wounds with his extra armor if the enemy is going to win combat in either case, you will still test on the same stubborn leadership. TG are an extreme example of a tarpit unit. so your enemy will be extremely cautious about what he is charging in with. If you suppose that your opponent will charge the unit with something that will not win combat, then yes, the benefit would apply. For one more point you can get an extra temple guard though, I'd probably go that direction myself.
 
Something to think about... Hmmmmmmm.... OUCH!!!!! I thought too hard... :depressed:
 
Yes, I am presuming that your TG are going to get charged. Thats because lots of armies will want to. They are worth heaps of victory points. Have you ever played against a knight army? You think they are going to opt our of charging you? Say your playing brettonians, are they going to NOT charge you because TG are all hardy and staunch? No.
They may charge you last, but they will charge.
Additionally, say that YOU get the charge off. Your Revered Guardian CAN issue his own challenges.
Also, TG don't have to be static. The unit costs so much that its often good enough to get them in the mix.
And they are badass in combat.

Additional
- Increases the chance of TG Champ keeping a character from chewing into your troop.
- ANY increased chance of winning combat on your general's unit is worth a mere 15 points.
 
Hi Has anyone thought of giving the RG the Carnosaur Pendant? What would this do to his unit, since the RG can not leave it?

Samuel
 
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