AoS Realmshaper Engine good ro useless?

[Alladin the Paladin]

My FLGS owner says he plays it such that you can replace an existing piece on the table with the RSE (this was enacted for the OBR rules but would also apply)

 

[ILKAIN]

some iteration of that seems reasonable.

 

[Killer Angel]

They will probably treat it like the do the bone tithe nexus. Where if a TO is needed they will help rebuild the table. Otherwise they will let the player pairs who are mature enough to figure it out on their own rebuild the table.

I don't doubt it can be handled. But this is not a hole in the rules for something very situational that was not predicted. It's a basic problem.
When the approach is "i'll leave you to deal with the issue in official tournaments", then it's a lazy design. It can be easily bypassed, but it's still a terrain with a bad rule that needs to be fixed before even playing.
It's like to buy a car without rearview mirrors because in the end you can fix it easily.

 

[LizardWizard]

I don't doubt it can be handled. But this is not a hole in the rules for something very situational that was not predicted. It's a basic problem.
When the approach is "i'll leave you to deal with the issue in official tournaments", then it's a lazy design. It can be easily bypassed, but it's still a terrain with a bad rule that needs to be fixed before even playing.
It's like to buy a car without rearview mirrors because in the end you can fix it easily.

GW has pretty much always done this though. Its why ITC is a thing. Not saying it shouldn't have been addressed by GW, but they frequently write rules that will require tournament organizers to either make a ruling on or adjustment to them.

 

[Killer Angel]

GW has pretty much always done this though. Its why ITC is a thing. Not saying it shouldn't have been addressed by GW, but they frequently write rules that will require tournament organizers to either make a ruling on or adjustment to them.

That's true.
The sad consequence, in this specific case, is that most of the "fixes" that can be applied in tournaments, will not let us to use one of the best trick to make the RE work (select and place the Arcane ruin).

...and God forbids you if you meet another Seraphon list. And that point, you simply cannot risk to give the terrain to your opponent...

 

[Cuetzpal Pilli]

and God forbids you if you meet another Seraphon list. And that point, you simply cannot risk to give the terrain to your opponent...

Believe the engine only works for "friendly" Seraphon wizards or priests, so your Seraphon opponent won't be able to use your engine, just their own.

But if you're talking about the fact that the rule adjustment will have to be applied for each player in a match, then yeah, that'd get annoying real quick.

 

[Killer Angel]

Believe the engine only works for "friendly" Seraphon wizards or priests, so your Seraphon opponent won't be able to use your engine, just their own.

Alas, that's not the case.
"You" is the person reading the warscroll, aka the player that controls the terrain .
See for example the damned terrain.
"At the start of your hero phase, you can pick one friendly unit within 1 of a damned terrain feature. If you do so, that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds..."
It says "friendly unit" so you cannot pick an enemy one and deal d3 mws .
It's the same for any army terrain... The terrain itself is not friendly or hostile, it's just terrain.

 

[Cuetzpal Pilli]

Alas, that's not the case.
"You" is the person reading the warscroll, aka the player that controls the terrain .
See for example the damned terrain.
"At the start of your hero phase, you can pick one friendly unit within 1 of a damned terrain feature. If you do so, that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds..."
It says "friendly unit" so you cannot pick an enemy one and deal d3 mws .
It's the same for any army terrain... The terrain itself is not friendly or hostile, it's just terrain.

If it's part of your army roster though, doesn't it technically count as part of your army though and is therefore friendly to you but hostile to your opponent?

Fluffwise, it makes sense that opponents from the same faction would be able to use terrain unique to said faction. Just curious if this has been addressed in an FAQ or something. I haven't played enough to have run into this myself, and I don't think I've seen this in any batrep videos either.

 

[Canas]

I don't think it's really been an issue till now. Mirror match-ups are ultimatly relativly rare, and no-one loses control of their terrain as easily. So I doubt there's any F.A.Q.

 

[Blitzkriyg]

If it's part of your army roster though, doesn't it technically count as part of your army though and is therefore friendly to you but hostile to your opponent?

Yes, this is correct, the person reading the warscroll doesn't change whether it's a friendly or enemy piece, it's a part of your army, your opponent cannot use its abilities

 

[Killer Angel]

Yes, this is correct, the person reading the warscroll doesn't change whether it's a friendly or enemy piece, it's a part of your army, your opponent cannot use its abilities

yet the opponent can garrison it, so the whole "its a part of your army" kinda fails. Such a wonderful terrain with such stupid rules...

 

[Grotpunter]

I dont see why a Seraphon opponent cant use your Realmshaper Engine. It is how it works for other mirrormatches like Skaven Gnawholes etc.

It is just a terrain piece you get to slap down on the table. The terrain got specific rules that anyone can take advantage of. The requirement is simply a friendly Seraphon Wizard/Priest, which it would be for your opponent if he had garrisoned a Seraphon Wizard/Priest inside.

 

[Killer Angel]

If it's part of your army roster though, doesn't it technically count as part of your army though and is therefore friendly to you but hostile to your opponent?

Yes, this is correct, the person reading the warscroll doesn't change whether it's a friendly or enemy piece, it's a part of your army, your opponent cannot use its abilities

nope, terrains are NOT a part of your army roster.
Q&A core rules:

I dont see why a Seraphon opponent cant use your Realmshaper Engine. It is how it works for other mirrormatches like Skaven Gnawholes etc.

It is just a terrain piece you get to slap down on the table. The terrain got specific rules that anyone can take advantage of. The requirement is simply a friendly Seraphon Wizard/Priest, which it would be for your opponent if he had garrisoned a Seraphon Wizard/Priest inside.

this is correct, so i confirm my original statement. If you face another Seraphon, it's definitely better to don't use the RE at all.

 

[Canas]

this is correct, so i confirm my original statement. If you face another Seraphon, it's definitely better to don't use the RE at all.

Or be nice, and both bring your own RE, finally have a match where you can actually use it (and then immeadiatly blow up his priest and vice versa )

 

[ILKAIN]

nope, terrains are NOT a part of your army roster.
Q&A core rules:
View attachment 69953




this is correct, so i confirm my original statement. If you face another Seraphon, it's definitely better to don't use the RE at all.

yeah but in a tournament, you don't have the luxury of not deploying it... if its on your list it MUST be deployed. so while the mirror match is unlikely, you cant not drop it when it does eventually occur lol

 

[LizardWizard]

yeah but in a tournament, you don't have the luxury of not deploying it... if its on your list it MUST be deployed. so while the mirror match is unlikely, you cant not drop it when it does eventually occur lol

The Realmshaper engine isn't part of your list. It is an allegiance ability. So you can decline to place it.

 

[Killer Angel]

yeah but in a tournament, you don't have the luxury of not deploying it... if its on your list it MUST be deployed.

Au contraire.
It's not in your army roster, so you can decide to not deploy it.

 

[ILKAIN]

The Realmshaper engine isn't part of your list. It is an allegiance ability. So you can decline to place it.

you were the one that taught me this! BETRAYAER! lol

thanks for the update.

 

[LizardWizard]

you were the one that taught me this! BETRAYAER! lol

thanks for the update.

When did I say it was part of your army? It is totally possible I once thought it was, but I honestly don't remember thinking that. I do remember writing a quick reference of when to deploy and when not to deploy the RSE.

 

[LizardWizard]

At some point in the future I might write an in depth guide to Realmshaper Engine usage. I am not nearly as disappointed in its rules as a large portion of the community seems to be. There are some match ups in the current meta where if you win the deployment roll off you can really hamper your opponent. At which point I feel like a 50% chance to lame your opponent is rather amazing.