AoS Question regarding Charge Phase

[The Red Devil]

I have read over the paragraphs a few times, and from what I understands there is no longer any "penalty" in failing a charge roll?

I.e. if I fail my roll, meaning that none of my models in the units would be within a half inch of the enemy, then the unit will stay put where it started this round.

I find this very strange as it basically means you should try any charge you can possibly make...

In ed. 8 at least you were careful when deciding if you wanted to make a charge or not, since if you failed it would make it much easier for the enemy to charge you next time.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

That's a good point. Just another, in the long line of reasons why AoS is tactically inferior to Warhammer Proper (8th edition).

 

[Ixt]

Since charging no longer occurs at the beginning of the turn, it sounds like failing a charge in AoS is equally - if not more - devastating.

 

[The Red Devil]

Since charging no longer occurs at the beginning of the turn, it sounds like failing a charge in AoS is equally - if not more - devastating.

How can this be correct, since you move before you charge?

This means that if you are up to 12" from enemy models, you could not do anything in the Combat phase anyway. Hence there is in reality no penalty.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Ixt]

I'd have to assume that my charge range is 7", right? 2d6 for charge range, usually a 7, etc.

So if two units are 11" away, and we both have a move of 4"...

I move up 4", try to charge at 7". I roll a 6, and I fail. I'm stuck in an awkward spot. Bad news.

My opponent moves up 4". Now, he or she only needs to make a 3" charge in their ensuing phase. It's practically guaranteed.

So, before, failing a charge was annoying because you jumped forward a bit.. but now it can be extremely bad, especially since quite a few things can run and charge, add a set value to their charge, reroll charge die, etc. Strikes me as really disruptive, but I'll have to playtest it.

 

[Andhe]

I'd have to assume that my charge range is 7", right? 2d6 for charge range, usually a 7, etc.

So if two units are 11" away, and we both have a move of 4"...

I move up 4", try to charge at 7". I roll a 6, and I fail. I'm stuck in an awkward spot. Bad news.

My opponent moves up 4". Now, he or she only needs to make a 3" charge in their ensuing phase. It's practically guaranteed.

So, before, failing a charge was annoying because you jumped forward a bit.. but now it can be extremely bad, especially since quite a few things can run and charge, add a set value to their charge, reroll charge die, etc. Strikes me as really disruptive, but I'll have to playtest it.

Add to that they will move, shoot you, and then charge, then into combat..

 

[The Red Devil]

True, but depending on how you look at this, you can also turn it the other way around.

With other words, I can move up, shoot, and then try a charge at no cost. If the charge succeed it is just the coating on the cake.

 

[Ixt]

Unless they're liable to be ripped to shreds...

 

[spawning of Bob]

The tactical question isn't be "Why shouldn't I try to charge if there is no penalty"

It should be "what is the reason I will plan NOT to charge?"

Possible answers could be:
I would get smashed, and I might not be juicy enough for him to charge in his turn.
I am not charging because I have another unit nearby who can charge who are better fighters.
I can pull him out of position with the old chaff bait tactic (does frenzy exist for other armies?)
etc

 

[hdctambien]

I'd have to assume that my charge range is 7", right? 2d6 for charge range, usually a 7, etc.

So if two units are 11" away, and we both have a move of 4"...

I move up 4", try to charge at 7". I roll a 6, and I fail. I'm stuck in an awkward spot. Bad news.

My opponent moves up 4". Now, he or she only needs to make a 3" charge in their ensuing phase. It's practically guaranteed.

So, before, failing a charge was annoying because you jumped forward a bit.. but now it can be extremely bad, especially since quite a few things can run and charge, add a set value to their charge, reroll charge die, etc. Strikes me as really disruptive, but I'll have to playtest it.

Getting the charge off isn't always that important (specifically if there are multiple combats going on) You only "get the initiative" in the first combat when it is your turn. So if your unit can handle attacking second, then there is no down side to failing the charge (well, the downside is that the unit you charged doesn't charge you but instead runs away) Especially if you weren't going to pick that unit as your first unit to fight in the Close Combat phase.

There is an slightly interesting mini-game going on in the Close Combat phase when you alternate with your opponent which units attack, since you can both jump around to any eligible unit. Will you take the initiative in the battle where you are likely going to finish off a unit so that you don't take any more wounds there? Or will you absorb attacks there and take the initiative in a different battle to reduce the number of attacks you take.

After unit selection, this is likely where most games will be won and lost rather than in the movement phase ala 8th edition.

 

[Andhe]

The tactical question isn't be "Why shouldn't I try to charge if there is no penalty"

It should be "I'll go play 8th instead, and have a much better time"

Fixed.

 

[Geko747]

You also have to look at how many units you have charged into combat as the opponent can pick any unit to attack back with in the combat phase. So if you have 2 monsters charging on the same turn 1 monster will be attacked before he gets his turn in combat. Which if he loses enough wounds will become much weaker. You really have to pick and choose who charges now.

 

[Kultak]

Having some knowledge on your enemy units might help also. You might want to try and steal the charge of any unit that get bonuses when charging!

But I do agree, AoS is not won on the movement phase is won on the combat phase. Who you pick to fight first.

 

[Korloq Huan]

I have read over the paragraphs a few times, and from what I understands there is no longer any "penalty" in failing a charge roll?

I.e. if I fail my roll, meaning that none of my models in the units would be within a half inch of the enemy, then the unit will stay put where it started this round.

I find this very strange as it basically means you should try any charge you can possibly make...

In ed. 8 at least you were careful when deciding if you wanted to make a charge or not, since if you failed it would make it much easier for the enemy to charge you next time.

AoS charging plays very similarly to 40k, where if you fail to charge you stay put. That becomes the penalty, because then the enemy can move closer and then charge you.

Quite a few of the AoS mechanics are similar to 40k. I think what they're trying to do is bridge the gap between the two systems to make it easier to switch. Thats why I think things like charging are similar.

Hope this helps