7th Ed. Question about Lizardmen- I'm thinking of starting them

[Hammerthorn]

Sup guys? I've loved Lizardmen since before I started Warhammer a few years ago. When I eventually decided to play (I used to play LotR) I was looking at each army and couldn't decide who to go for. Lizardmen, or Tomb Kings? I had no idea. In the end, I went for the cheap option and bought the Warhammer starter set with Orcs 'n' Goblins, and, Empire. This is cause my Dad had said he'd buy the army I didn't want for 20 quid off of me, so then I could go buy an extra unit.

I loved my Orcs, and spent a while playing them, and then started High Elves 2 years ago. However, my exams started and I hated painting the High Elves, so they got put aside for a while. I've also as of last year collected Vampire Counts. Collected meaning... I bought everything, but didn't assemble/paint... As of last month though, i've started painting them and they're fun to paint

However, I hate to say it, but, i've really loved Lizardmen all this time and, well, for some reason avoided them. I really dont want to start a new army (I'm an eBay buyer mind, so I normally pick up my armies dirt cheap) because I have a lack of space. I can't store all my models as it at the moment, but, at the same time i'm dying to paint some of these much loved models.

So I have 2 questions!-

(1) Are Lizardmen a fun Warband to play Mordheim with? I do enjoy Mordheim, and this would allow me to pick some beutiful models out, paint em, and still use them.

(2) Can you have a good, compact Lizardmen army? I'm happy to maybe purchase a few units if I could get say, 1000pts, and just use it as a regular small army. Then, when I get more space, I could upgrade it and add more. Thing is, some small armies are great fun to play, and really work well- others are well... a nuisance to play. They aren't fun, and they generally lack any flavour.

I personally love the Terradon Rider models, Skink Chiefs, Chameleon Skinks and some of the Hunting parties.

I also like the Saurus' and Saurus chief.

I like to play an army that hits hard in what it does. Example being, with a small Orc force I took no ranged units. Generally I had a Orc Boss on Boar paired with an Orc Chariot, Unit of Orc Boyz (20), Unit of Wolf Riders and a Night Goblin Unit. I also had a Night Goblin Shaman. This was all under 6th ed btw, i've not played a game with my Orcs for a long time.

I mean, i'm happy to collect a small Lizardmen army as long as, well, I can fit it in a case lets say. As I mentioned, i'm an eBay buyer when it comes to Warhammer, cause i'm tight. I'm really happy with simple armies by the way too! I personally like seeing a good lump of Core Units with some support by Specials/Rare. I know (especially with High Elves) the current trend is Minimum Core + Maximum Rare, but, I prefer fun and friendly games.

So yeah, answers to both questions appreciated! I really, REALLY hope I can make a lil Lizard army without having to sell what i've already got!

Thanks again!

 

[Barotok]

I did an entire campaign of mordheim a couple years back, and despite my inexperience, I found that I was one of the armies that was still standing in the later stages of the campaign. Did I win? I hardly think so, as there were some great players there (don't remember much about it). I do remember having a great time with the lizardmen warband that I brought.

As far as playing smaller point value games, I've found LM to be very good for being regarded as elite as they are. I've done about average in most of our warband leagues that we've done. I have some big wins and some pretty crushing defeats, but I really feel the list can hold its own at all points values (even though having a Slann is awesome). As compared to an army like, say, Tomb Kings who struggle fitting enough normal troops into their lists, with the amount of characters they are forced to take, I'd say LM are excellent.

Those are my thoughts. Best of luck finding room for lizards. I'd have to say their definitely worth it!

 

[Hammerthorn]

I did an entire campaign of mordheim a couple years back, and despite my inexperience, I found that I was one of the armies that was still standing in the later stages of the campaign. Did I win? I hardly think so, as there were some great players there (don't remember much about it). I do remember having a great time with the lizardmen warband that I brought.

Badass man. Sounds decent. Obviously i'm only playing with friends anyway. Out of interest, even if you're not playing in Lustria, do you still need to do the weather rolls it mentions in thier rules?

As far as playing smaller point value games, I've found LM to be very good for being regarded as elite as they are. I've done about average in most of our warband leagues that we've done. I have some big wins and some pretty crushing defeats, but I really feel the list can hold its own at all points values (even though having a Slann is awesome). As compared to an army like, say, Tomb Kings who struggle fitting enough normal troops into their lists, with the amount of characters they are forced to take, I'd say LM are excellent.

Those are my thoughts. Best of luck finding room for lizards. I'd have to say their definitely worth it!

So, although it's a lot to ask, have you got a kind of "Rough Draught" of a 500-1000 point Lizardman army? I mean i'd really like to get a unit of Terradons in there. Do they work in a small army? Also, as mentioned in my Orc list, the Hero/Chariot combo literally destroyed all small units (And even caused a unit of Inner Circle Empire knights to break and flee after they charged. D6+1 impact hits with and the Hero with a sword that ignores Armour saves was nasty ). What do the Lizardmen use for powerful hitting?

Sorry for the n00bish questions but, as you can guess, I am a Lizardmen n00b

 

[Barotok]

I'll try and elaborate on the Mordheim campaign as much as I can. I'll warn you that it was several years ago and so I don't remember exactly what happened through all of it. To answer your question about rolling for weather. We had a fluff based location where the fighting was taking place so we really didn't worry too much about that. The LM acted just like other troops on the battlefield.


As far as the rought draft list for 500-1000 is concerned, I really haven't hammered anything out that I prefer to take at that points value as, remarkably good. I do play a lot of low points value games and really seem to enjoy myself with what ever I take, win or loose. As a general rule of thumb, I tend to stear clear of expensive characters and maximize on the army's great rank and file models. This has a tendancy to give you the 'numbers' edge against truely elite armies (think WoC) and allows you to not have to worry as much about horde style lists. I also shy away from magic in smaller games, although this is frequently based on the fact that our gaming group doesn't run much magic for smaller games (typically speaking). I really like the Sarus and Skink skirmishers for small games and most of my lists are based around a Scar veteran general (who carries minimal equipment) and then beefed out with a sarus warrior unit (or two). After which I usually bring in a special choice or two, followed by finishing the list, with as many skink skirmishers units as I can (typically in 10s). As you get closer to 1000 points you'll find that taking a skink priest will be more effective. Using them as generals can work in smaller games if you prefer only one character, but they are most definitely vulerable being T2.

On the issue of terradons, they carry a very good reputation on these boards. You'll find many here that recommend having a unit in every list. If not every list, the generall consensus seems to be that they are very usefull. I have my doubts, and mixed feelings about the unit since the changes made to it going from 6th - 7th edition. I won't deny their usefullness as I still feel they're a great unit. But I will say that they tend to not be as usefull when pitted against the lists that I am used to facing. This tends to not make me as big of a fan as the rest of the folks on the site here.

As far as hard hitting units, you do have a few options. I favor Cold One Cavalry, despite their stupidity. I also regularly run units of Kroxigors, which despite their strength nerf seem to do well, provided they get a charge (I'm damning myself for saying that on these boards). Also, we can't forget about the chief hard hitters in the army, Stegadons. Seventh edition rules alow you to field these guys by the boatload (think 8 in a 2k list). Surprisingly, I don't run a steg in smaller games. This is probably a self imposed handicap on my list because many small points value army lists have a tendancy to run smaller blocks of troops making a stegadon devastating. Even the cheap ones are ridiculously expensive for smaller games though.

Once you get into larger games, Old Blood + Carnosaur is a great hard hitter as well.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

I started Collecting lizardmen last fall, they have really good models and fit my hit+run and elitist style....

However, I too have a question....

since when could lizardmen play mordheim? I looked at the pdf, thinking it was cool, and the only non human race was skaven

hopefully you find people that don't complain whenever they lose a unit

 

[Hammerthorn]

I started Collecting lizardmen last fall, they have really good models and fit my hit+run and elitist style....

However, I too have a question....

since when could lizardmen play mordheim? I looked at the pdf, thinking it was cool, and the only non human race was skaven

hopefully you find people that don't complain whenever they lose a unit

You want Mordheim Lizzies?

http://www.mordheimer.com/warbands/unofficial/lizardmen.htm

 

[Hammerthorn]

I'll try and elaborate on the Mordheim campaign as much as I can. I'll warn you that it was several years ago and so I don't remember exactly what happened through all of it. To answer your question about rolling for weather. We had a fluff based location where the fighting was taking place so we really didn't worry too much about that. The LM acted just like other troops on the battlefield.

I'm replying to the whole post btw! Just cutting it down for the quote!

Lizardmen do sound a nice army to use. I'm just worried they aren't expensive enough in points to work with what i'm going for. Unless I suddenly get a tonne of extra room, I dont know whether i'll be able to keep em

I'll draught a 500pt and 1000pt list sometime soon and see how many models i'm getting on average. I really, REALLY need a low model count.

(I really, REALLY want some flying units too! I mean, I know VC and HE have Varghulf and Eagles respectively but, I just love the idea of having someone riding a giant bird)

I'm pretty sure il start a Mordheim warband for the lizards though. No doubt, it'll end up as a full army

(Then il be welcome on these boards. I feel totally out of place here. lol)

 

[strewart]

Greetings, welcome to the board.

I can sympathize with having too many models uassembled/unpainted.. It is sad, but hard to find the time and inspiration sometimes.

LM do have the potential to be a very elite army, saurus are quite expensive (but still great for their points) and a couple of units of them plus a character will get you a good way toward 1000 points. The stegadon can also be taken in small battles, though it does have the potential to dominate the battle if your opponent has nothing that can scratch it. Handle with care at 1k and leave home in anything smaller.

Terradons are indeed a great unit, you will find they do a similar function to your elven eagles if you ever used them and VC giant bats. Terradons are pretty light, but useful when deployed in the right areas.

 

[Hammerthorn]

Greetings, welcome to the board.

I can sympathize with having too many models uassembled/unpainted.. It is sad, but hard to find the time and inspiration sometimes.

LM do have the potential to be a very elite army, saurus are quite expensive (but still great for their points) and a couple of units of them plus a character will get you a good way toward 1000 points. The stegadon can also be taken in small battles, though it does have the potential to dominate the battle if your opponent has nothing that can scratch it. Handle with care at 1k and leave home in anything smaller.

Terradons are indeed a great unit, you will find they do a similar function to your elven eagles if you ever used them and VC giant bats. Terradons are pretty light, but useful when deployed in the right areas.

Ah you can empathise with me! Tell me about. When it comes to inspiration, all 3 of the mentioned armies can be a chore. Thankfully alot of OnG are painted, so that's all cool. But, High Elves, ugh, white is just not fun at the best of times. (Plus picking a complimenting colour. That's hell). Vampire Counts are fun mind, Zombies, although take forever, certainly are nice. You can change the flesh tone everytime, which is fun.

I'm thinking of taking a Saurus heav ylist, but no Stegadon. That's simply because (at the moment) i'm not so keen on the model, and I think i'll be called cheese taking a Stegadon in a 1000point list. I know i'd call anyone who took one cheese.

Terradons seem beauties to me. I also love Chameleon Skinks. Now, as you'll know, there is only so much you can gather from reading the books. Can you give me an idea of how these guys play? I've think I read (while lurking here) that they weren't so great, so, i'd be interested to know, in everyones experience how they perform?

Thanks for all the help so far I'm getting a MUCH better understanding of the army from y'all

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Interesting warband rules...although I don't think Anyone will be willing 2 play ...

and how did you go to a tournie/campaign using unnoficial rules?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Revered_Guardian]

I love the Idea of cham skinks!, when I get to 2250, you can bet that they'll be in my list, if only because of there awesome fluff...the general consensus though, is why pay 5 more points for scout +1 BS, and chameleon (I play TK and skaven alot.....)

However, they can wreak havoc by march blocking, and they can *crossfire kill* (sneak behind units in combat so when they flee they auto die*

another good tactic with them is to run around and chase fleeing units off the board, as they'll be closer to panicked units due to scout

edit: woops double post!

 

[strewart]

Ah you can empathise with me! Tell me about. When it comes to inspiration, all 3 of the mentioned armies can be a chore. Thankfully alot of OnG are painted, so that's all cool. But, High Elves, ugh, white is just not fun at the best of times. (Plus picking a complimenting colour. That's hell). Vampire Counts are fun mind, Zombies, although take forever, certainly are nice. You can change the flesh tone everytime, which is fun.

I'm thinking of taking a Saurus heav ylist, but no Stegadon. That's simply because (at the moment) i'm not so keen on the model, and I think i'll be called cheese taking a Stegadon in a 1000point list. I know i'd call anyone who took one cheese.

Terradons seem beauties to me. I also love Chameleon Skinks. Now, as you'll know, there is only so much you can gather from reading the books. Can you give me an idea of how these guys play? I've think I read (while lurking here) that they weren't so great, so, i'd be interested to know, in everyones experience how they perform?

Thanks for all the help so far I'm getting a MUCH better understanding of the army from y'all

The thing I found most fun about VC was converting them, painting got a bit repetative but at least bone is dead easy to paint. I agree that painting white is awful, I decided to avoid the typical colours for HE which got me inspired to firstly paint them (I had a few blue models that weren't going anywhere for a long time) and push my painting skills to their limits, and my elves really improved my painting plus I love the army now. I have a few pics of them in the Lesser Races painting subforum here if you want to look.

Anyway, charmeleon skinks are a useful unit but are generally seen as too expensive for what they do. Revered_Guardian hit the nail on the head, lots more expensive than normal skinks and not much better, especially since skinks are so fast and can move to where they are needed anyway. If you do decide to use some, don't buy the overpriced metal models convert from plastic skinks.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Agreed, I'm so crazy about these guys that Im converting a skink chief to look like a chameleon skink, sure he won't get the bonuses....BUT THERE SO COOL!!!!

Right now im looking at getting even more stuff into my 2k list though....what if I removed my EOTG for a regular Skink priest I wonder....

 

[Hammerthorn]

The thing I found most fun about VC was converting them, painting got a bit repetative but at least bone is dead easy to paint. I agree that painting white is awful, I decided to avoid the typical colours for HE which got me inspired to firstly paint them (I had a few blue models that weren't going anywhere for a long time) and push my painting skills to their limits, and my elves really improved my painting plus I love the army now. I have a few pics of them in the Lesser Races painting subforum here if you want to look.

Anyway, charmeleon skinks are a useful unit but are generally seen as too expensive for what they do. Revered_Guardian hit the nail on the head, lots more expensive than normal skinks and not much better, especially since skinks are so fast and can move to where they are needed anyway. If you do decide to use some, don't buy the overpriced metal models convert from plastic skinks.

Yeah Vampires are great fun for conversions. One thing I can not understand though is why Games Workshop didn't release the "Build a Mounted and Foot Vampire". There'd be so many great things they could do with the models. Plus, give us a nice BSB to go with it all. They could have easily done a Necromancer kit too (Not that i'd want one though. I prefer to take beefed up Mage Vampires )

And thanks for the comments on the Chameleon Skinks I'll hunt eBay to see if the metals are going cheap mind I've not had time yet to create a 500-1000 point list but, i'm looking forward to it. Any units that excel in this size game, out of interest?

Also- i'm mixed in opinions about Kroxigors, are they really crucial to the Liardmen army? They're okay but, personally, they seem like a bad version of the old Stone Troll models. (I absoloutley LOVED the old Stone Troll models. I have about 6-8 of them )

 

[thesecondman]

Don't get the army set. It has Saurus Cav in them.

 

[strewart]

Kroxigors are a bit weak now with only s6 from their great weapons... I don't think many people use them on their own. 1 or 2 in a unit of skinks is ok though, depending on how you play the army.

Don't listen to thesecondman, he dislikes cold one knights because of their stupidity. They have the cold blooded rule and high leadership making them extremely reliable and quite resistant to it, somewhere around 90% pass rate. Also the batallion box is designed to be good value, even if you decide you don't like the shock cavalry (and some people don't) you are still getting them for free compared to buying the rest of the stuff seperately, plus get a good sized unit of saurus rather than 16.

 

[Hammerthorn]

Kroxigors are a bit weak now with only s6 from their great weapons... I don't think many people use them on their own. 1 or 2 in a unit of skinks is ok though, depending on how you play the army.

Don't listen to thesecondman, he dislikes cold one knights because of their stupidity. They have the cold blooded rule and high leadership making them extremely reliable and quite resistant to it, somewhere around 90% pass rate. Also the batallion box is designed to be good value, even if you decide you don't like the shock cavalry (and some people don't) you are still getting them for free compared to buying the rest of the stuff seperately, plus get a good sized unit of saurus rather than 16.

Yeah I like the Saurus Cavalry quite alot actually. Thier High Ld leads me to belive they'll be fine.

Can you give me an idea of what kind of Hero combinations are good? Also, what Lores work well for the Lizards? With O&G i'm always using Waaagh!, with HE i'm always using High Magic, and with Vampire Counts, it's always Necromancers Magic... heh. So i've not got much experience with the other lores.

 

[Celticfire]

Edit: wrong thread *Headslap*

 

[strewart]

Kroxigors are a bit weak now with only s6 from their great weapons... I don't think many people use them on their own. 1 or 2 in a unit of skinks is ok though, depending on how you play the army.

Don't listen to thesecondman, he dislikes cold one knights because of their stupidity. They have the cold blooded rule and high leadership making them extremely reliable and quite resistant to it, somewhere around 90% pass rate. Also the batallion box is designed to be good value, even if you decide you don't like the shock cavalry (and some people don't) you are still getting them for free compared to buying the rest of the stuff seperately, plus get a good sized unit of saurus rather than 16.

Yeah I like the Saurus Cavalry quite alot actually. Thier High Ld leads me to belive they'll be fine.

Can you give me an idea of what kind of Hero combinations are good? Also, what Lores work well for the Lizards? With O&G i'm always using Waaagh!, with HE i'm always using High Magic, and with Vampire Counts, it's always Necromancers Magic... heh. So i've not got much experience with the other lores.

Picking a lore is a lot a matter of opinion and your own play style, look through the lores and see what kind of spells you like. Some, like beasts, will give you a few special tactics like making the steg move further or chanelling the hunter's spear through a flying skink priest, others are all out offensive like fire and just deal direct damage, light is good against undead etc.