Poll: Stranded on a deserted island, which do you choose? + wild card round (page 5)

[NIGHTBRINGER]

That girl was a tribe member used to living in that exact way on that exact island.
That's not a good example at all.


I would love to hear more since I know none that would apply to something like our situation.

EDIT: I went through several lists of castaways and the like, and they all either had contact to other people (native people from those islands for example, or the poor guys that got killed by the Japanese soldiers that hid in the woods for 30 years), or lived in decently sized groups, or survived not more than a couple of years at most, and/or were pretty well prepared (because they were there intentionally).

Do we have much of a chance here?

As stated in my posts above I am very sure that none of the options provides us with a decent chance of long time survival. 20 or even 10 years is pretty much out of question under these circumstances. Most people would most likely die within a few weeks or months.

You wanted proof that it could be done, I've provided that. Human beings have done it before, so human beings can do it again. It is easy to point to loopholes or caveats but It is physically possible, even if improbable. You have every right to stay your course, I'm not trying to convince you that you would survive. I'm not even sure that I would, but I would face it with far more optimism...

 

[pendrake]

As per the original post... you are kidnapped and wake up on the island, therefore it is safe to assume that you were unconscious throughout the process.

“You get to bring...”

And then after that there is this conscious choice and the (day?) it takes for the kidnappers to implement it.

Or is all this silliness provided in miracle fashion by St. Tom, the patron saint of Castaways?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

“You get to bring...”

And then after that there is this conscious choice and the (day?) it takes for the kidnappers to implement it.

Or is all this silliness provided in miracle fashion by St. Tom, the patron saint of Castaways?

I think you're looking too deep into it. I think we all know what the scenario entails.

You wake up on the island with everything in A or B or C.

 

[Aginor]

I think you're looking too deep into it. I think we all know what the scenario entails.

You wake up on the island with everything in A or B or C.

I hope not _only_ with that, though.
It would be kinda awkward to run around naked with those lesbians....
...and clothes are mighty useful (apart from their obvious use). Shoe strings come to mind. But clothes can also be used for various fishing techniques for example.

 

[Scalenex]

As per the original post... you are kidnapped and wake up on the island, therefore it is safe to assume that you were unconscious throughout the process.

Well presumably the kidnappers will come get me when the ransom is paid. That shouldn't be a probably. A go-fund me on Lustria-Online will raise the ransom money fast.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Extra post for priorities:
- find water
- find shelter
- make fire
- find food

Just for a bit of analysis, I'm going to compare each of our 3 groups in relation to the 4 key resources [water, shelter, fire, food] you have outlined. I'm going to use a simple points based system based on the following:

• 0 points - your chosen items do not aid in the procurement/creation of the resource
• 1 point - your chosen items provide an advantage/aid in the procurement/creation of the resource
• 2 points - your chosen items already include the resource
• 3 points - your chosen items already include the resource AND provide an advantage in the further procurement/creation of the resource

Group A
Water - 1 point (the booze bottles can be used to store and collect water)
Shelter - 1 point (lesbians can help in the creation of a shelter)
Fire - 1 point (alcohol can be used as an accelerant, and the bottles may be utilized as a magnifying glass)
Food - 1 point (the lesbian can fish and the rifle could used to hunt game)

Group A total: 4 points


Group B
Water - 1 point (the freezer could be used to capture moisture from the air)
Shelter - 1 point (hot chick can help in the creation of a shelter)
Fire - 0 points
Food - 1 point (fishing equipment can be used to catch fish)

Group B total: 3 points


Group C
Water - 1 point (plastic bag/packaging from the weed can be used to create a water collection system [stored in the cans from the dog food])
Shelter - 3 points (shelter already included, the creation of further structures will be aided greatly by the knife)
Fire - 1 point (water filled plastic bag/packaging from the weed can be used as a magnifying glass)
Food - 3 points (dog food is immediately available [as well as the dogs if you choose], knife can be used in the creation of traps and spears for hunting)

Group C total: 8 points

 

[Killer Angel]

Just for a bit of analysis, I'm going to compare each of our 3 groups in relation to the 4 key resources [water, shelter, fire, food] you have outlined. I'm going to use a simple points based system based on the following:

As much as i appreciate (and agree with) the analysis, i would give at least additional 1-2 points to Group B, as the main utility of the freezer (food storage) is not included in the priorities points (yeah, it comes after the acquisition of the foot itself, but it's very important nonetheless).

Group C includes it somehow, as the dog food is considered safely stored.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

As much as i appreciate (and agree with) the analysis, i would give at least additional 1-2 points to Group B, as the main utility of the freezer (food storage) is not included in the priorities points (yeah, it comes after the acquisition of the foot itself, but it's very important nonetheless).

I very much agree with you that the analysis does not take everything into account. It is more of a snap shot in time at the onset of the survival experience in relation to specifically what @Aginor listed. During the course of the entire 20 years the freezer would prove to be extremely valuable in maintenance of a healthy food supply. Likewise, it does not take into consideration other factors like the psychological impact of having human companionship (A & B) or that group C reduces the island stay by 40%.

 

[Aginor]

EDIT:
Sniped. I wrote most of this before the post before this one.

That's a bit of a weird scale on first glance, I am not sure it really helps. But just for the lulz, let's take a look...

If the water bags (that's a pretty nice trick btw, I think I first saw it in a survival video a few years ago and was shocked to see that it is relatively easy) add 1 point for making fire already then the booze and gun powder should make it two points for A. It is really easy to make a fire, even from relatively bad wood, if you have alcohol and gunpowder to help starting it. A firearm is basically fire anyway....

Also: wait... the dog good is in cans?
That's cool. I assumed it was in bags.
I can also just use the crates the booze bottles come in to build my shelter?
That helps a lot.

Also interesting: hides of animals that can be hunted with the rifle are pretty good for making simple shelters (for the roof especially). That's a big advantage in addition to the help of the two girls.
Since the scale doesn't give more points for levels of usefulness that give above being a bit useful I am not sure it is great for assessing that situation.

You could also kill and eat the humans, OR just kill them and use them as bait for fish or predators. Why isn't that three points for A? And in addition to that: what is with such "OR" situations. That's something you face in all three options. (For example using the fishing net in B for the shelter, it is pretty useful for that. But then you won't be able to fish with it anymore).

And what about the booze? Booze contains 710 calories per 100ml and many alcoholic beverages also contain sugar. So the booze is food, too. And since bottles are great for building fish traps the booze also helps with getting more food. That's three points right there isn't it?

Also: the scale doesn't factor in the workload it seems? For example making fire in B. If you have tried making a fire by your own, compared to having one or more other people helping you, you will know that makes a big difference.

Same goes for B vs. the other two concerning food. Real fishing gear, especially a net, is so much better than primitive methods (such as spear fishing) that it probably saves you more than a day of work each week. That's vastly better.

And then of course the obvious aspect: doing two or three things at the same time... that should count for something.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

You could also kill and eat the humans, OR just kill them and use them as bait for fish or predators. Why isn't that three points for A?

Because I made the (hopefully) reasonable assumption that you weren't planning on killing the other humans to eat them. In any event that would actually work against you in group A as they are just as likely to employ that tactic against you (and the odds are in favour of them teaming up against you).

Further proof that shit personality lesbian + booze + firearm is a bad thing.

And what about the booze? Booze contains 710 calories per 100ml and many alcoholic beverages also contain sugar. So the booze is food, too. And since bottles are great for building fish traps the booze also helps with getting more food. That's three points right there isn't it?

You are right that alcohol is a macronutrient (plus the sugar itself), meaning it can sustain you with calories. HOWEVER, relying on it as a food source is an extraordinarily bad idea. First off you will dehydrate yourself and second if your overindulge in the practice you are more likely to get injured or make stupid decisions. In an area with no available food (like in the film/book Alive) and steady supply of drinkable water, your idea is correct. In our deserted island scenario I wouldn't chance it myself, but if you would, you could award a full 3 points for it.

Also: the scale doesn't factor in the workload it seems? For example making fire in B. If you have tried making a fire by your own, compared to having one or more other people helping you, you will know that makes a big difference.

It's admittedly a simple scale. Otherwise group C would have to be rewarded many times over for the category of shelter as they already have the best shelter (which is impossible to recreate in the other two groups) and the best tool (knife) to build further ones. No other group even comes close.

Your example of fire in regards to group A is also equally applicable as you have two extra people to gather materials to burn, alcohol as an accelerant and gunpowder.

Also: wait... the dog good is in cans?
That's cool. I assumed it was in bags.

If it was in paper bags they could be used as kindling / fire starter. If it was in plastic bags, the plastic would be immensely useful.

If it is not in cans, the knife could be used to carve wood into a bowl/cup-like shape to capture the water from the water collection system. Or just capture the water using a second bag from the weed stash.

Same goes for B vs. the other two concerning food. Real fishing gear, especially a net, is so much better than primitive methods (such as spear fishing) that it probably saves you more than a day of work each week. That's vastly better.

True. But this is offset by group A's rife with ability to hunt other game and Group C's knife which can be used to make traps to capture other animals.

Personally, I'd take the knife over the other two anyways.

 

[Aginor]

The question for the shelter is: how much better does the C shelter really make the situation?


I'd be more inclined to agree if it
- wasn't filled with three tons of weed that you have to get out, alone to boot.
- had a hole in the roof (yeah sounds weird, but one of your problems will be getting cold, even in pretty warm climates. You have to make the fire close to yourself, inside the shelter, so you can be dry and warm).
- was portable (not important short term, but can become very important for long term survival).

But yeah it is a very good shelter, the shelter is by far the best thing in C. The knife is great but you can survive without it until you can improvise.
In fact I read about some survival guy who said he'd ditch his knife way before he'd ditch his axe.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The question for the shelter is: how much better does the C shelter really make the situation?

I believe it provides a VERY SIGNIFICANT advantage. First off, it is immediately available; which is important because you very vulnerable at the onset. Instead of worrying about building a shelter, you can search for water and food. So it is a huge time saver. Second, the other two groups don't have any good tools to create a decent shelter. Just what do you think you can build without a good cutting tool?

Ignoring the fact that it is immediately available, I think the quality of the shelter also plays a huge role as well...

• it provides you with a place to get away from 99% of insects. Any shelter built in groups A or B will offer very little protection against insects. Not only are insect bites annoying, itchy and troublesome, they can also be dangerous due to infections, etc.
• it provides 100% protection against wind and rain. Scratch built shelters will always be vulnerable to heavy winds and may not be 100% rain proof (especially in the presence of heavy winds)
• it provides you with protection against wild animals. It will take a very long time and a huge amount of effort to fully fence off a scratch built shelter in order to protect it against the vicious animals (especially with no cutting tools!). Many such animals hunt at night and pose a significant threat. With group A at least you have the rifle and 3 people to take turns standing watch, but it is still far from perfect. Group B is extremely vulnerable. With the ready built shelter, you have a safe and secure place.

- wasn't filled with three tons of weed that you have to get out, alone to boot.

Luckily we have time! That is of zero concern for me. That can be accomplished once all the pressing matters have been addressed (acquisition of water, creation of weapons and traps, further securing my living area and making fire). At the beginning, all you need to do is make sure you have enough room to sleep.

In fact, all that weed would be useful. I would use the packaged up bricks of weed to line the inside walls of the shelter to aid in insulating the shelter (seeing as I have 3 tonnes of the stuff).

- had a hole in the roof (yeah sounds weird, but one of your problems will be getting cold, even in pretty warm climates. You have to make the fire close to yourself, inside the shelter, so you can be dry and warm).

The last thing I want is to have a hole in the roof. One of the key aspects of the shelter (as opposed to scratch built ones) is that it offers full protection from wind, rain and animals... plus near perfect protection against insects [because a few of those bastards will always manage to get in!]. As I mentioned above, the weed can be used as an insulator. If I am still cold, I could use the sails from the sail boat as a make shift blanket (without damaging or altering them, so that they are in perfect condition for departure in 12 years). You'll find that your scratch built shelter and fire are pretty useless in a tropical storm!

Also, there is no way I would risk my shelter by setting a fire inside of it.

- was portable (not important short term, but can become very important for long term survival).

No worthwhile shelter is going to be portable. It would serve as my primary base of operations. Slowly I could create further barriers and water collection systems. I could create workstations and tools. All these require a stable and fixed base.

If the time comes that I need to move for some reason, Group C with the knife is in a far superior position to create a secondary (temporary) base. All this depends on how big the island is in the first place.

For the most part though (there are exceptions), I think the better strategy is to largely stay in one place and cultivate and transform it to suit your needs. If you are moving around you will only ever have the most basic of shelters or equipment. Plus all that moving eats up precious calories.

The knife is great but you can survive without it until you can improvise.
In fact I read about some survival guy who said he'd ditch his knife way before he'd ditch his axe.

The knife is often considered to be the premier survival tool. You may improvise something in the other two groups, but it will always be a very poor approximation of my knife in group C.

The knife vs. axe argument is a moot point, as no group has access to an axe. Both and axe and a knife are immensely useful tools. The axe will be superior in terms of felling trees, while the knife will perform better with finer tasks.

the shelter is by far the best thing in C

The shelter, knife and sail boat are all exceptional. The only things that come close is the booze from group A (for the bottles, disinfecting, fire starter, etc.) and the freezer in group B. Even still, I probably wouldn't trade away the knife/shelter/sailboat for any of the items in group A or B.

 

[Aginor]

Wait wait wait , now suddenly the sail boat is a resource, too? It is there all the time and you can use the stuff there????

You keep making C better and better...

A person in that situation would most likely still be dead after a few months, but for short term survival you are set with C now. Just kill the dogs, eat their (apparently now human-edible) dog food and live in a perfect shelter that never gets damp because it is of course in a perfect location that doesn't allow water in, and is of course warm enough so you don't need your fire in there, and the super dangerous animals are all far too dumb to just wait outside of it. And of course you can use all the sail boat stuff, too.




As for your question:
You should search for "survival shelter without tools". Some shelters are very easy to build, if there are at least some trees around. No need for a knife or axe.
They are not great shelters but they work in the conditions you mentioned.

 

[Killer Angel]

Wait wait wait , now suddenly the sail boat is a resource, too? It is there all the time and you can use the stuff there????.

It was there since the beginning, and i considered it in my decision.
It's not a canoe, it's a sailboat that needs repair.
I don't know what it can contain, but there must be something.

 

[Aginor]

I kinda assumed that you find/salvage the sail boat after spending some time there. Otherwise the 12 years don't make a lot of sense.

 

[Killer Angel]

I kinda assumed that you find/salvage the sail boat after spending some time there. Otherwise the 12 years don't make a lot of sense.

Thinking on it, it's not an unlikely assumption...

 

[The Red Devil]

You wanted proof that it could be done, I've provided that. Human beings have done it before, so human beings can do it again. It is easy to point to loopholes or caveats but It is physically possible, even if improbable. You have every right to stay your course, I'm not trying to convince you that you would survive. I'm not even sure that I would, but I would face it with far more optimism...

The number of people that can do this in the "industrial countries" is getting fewer every year.

A few points:
-How many today know which of the plants in your region/country that you can eat, which one you can use for medicine.

-It is no longer common knowledge to know how to slaughter an animal, and how to prepare the meat properly for storage (or other food types).

-We live in a world where hunters are receiving death threats from people who have no idea where the food they buy in the store come from (and does not understand that when the natural predators are extinct in an area/country, this means that without hunting a deer will die a slow and horrible death with pain and starvation due to not being able to eat as their teeth go bad with age. I could go on, but you get the point.)

-The skill set and knowledge that our grandparents had are slowly dying with them, as they are not required in today's world.

If you have the possibility sit down with your grandparents and parents and ask questions on how they did things in the past, from techniques used to fertilize plants (before you started buying it premade at the store), to how the food was prepared for storage. etc. While this is not something you at this point in time really need, it is your heritage, and who knows, perhaps you or your kids will need this knowledge sometime in the future.

With time I hope to transfer what I have learned to my kids, but who knows if they want to listen and learn when they get to age.

 

[The Red Devil]

For the initial survey, there are so many unknowns, making any choice similar to picking a lottery ticket.

You do not know the extent of vegetation, the type of vegetation / trees, the extent of fresh water, if there are stone types available to make tools like knives from.

It indicates that there is fish around, but that mostly depends on where the island is, and how easy it will be to catch is depending on the area/ground outside the island (Take a look on the US tv series Alone to see how fishing depends on the area and change with seasons).

And as mentioned in the previous post, unless you have previous experience with how people survived in the old days, I doubt you would survive more than a few years on any of the options at most.

 

[Aginor]

The number of people that can do this in the "industrial countries" is getting fewer every year.

A few points:
-How many today know which of the plants in your region/country that you can eat, which one you can use for medicine.

-It is no longer common knowledge to know how to slaughter an animal, and how to prepare the meat properly for storage (or other food types).

-We live in a world where hunters are receiving death threats from people who have no idea where the food they buy in the store come from (and does not understand that when the natural predators are extinct in an area/country, this means that without hunting a deer will die a slow and horrible death with pain and starvation due to not being able to eat as their teeth go bad with age. I could go on, but you get the point.)

-The skill set and knowledge that our grandparents had are slowly dying with them, as they are not required in today's world.

If you have the possibility sit down with your grandparents and parents and ask questions on how they did things in the past, from techniques used to fertilize plants (before you started buying it premade at the store), to how the food was prepared for storage. etc. While this is not something you at this point in time really need, it is your heritage, and who knows, perhaps you or your kids will need this knowledge sometime in the future.

With time I hope to transfer what I have learned to my kids, but who knows if they want to listen and learn when they get to age.

And even if you know it for your home area (like the girl. She literally just continued living the way she had done it all the time, just without other people), you will be in huge danger elsewhere.

Some examples:
- there are fish that are edible when living in the open ocean, but the same species is poisonous in atolls, because they feed from corals and stuff that makes them poisonous for humans. You almost cannot know that.
- there is a type of Liana plant that you can crack open and drink the water from it. There is a VERY similar looking Liana that will kill you if you drink its water.
- fresh water in tropical environments contains a lot of pathogens that your body hasn't seen yet, and has no defenses against. If you don't know that then the diarrhea will get you. Diarrhea in such a situation can easily be your death. Especially when you are alone.
- there is a plant that looks quite similar to a tomato plant. But you cannot eat its fruits, only its roots (it is called potato). The fruits are poisonous. In fact all the green parts of the plant are.
- there might be harmless looking bugs that can kill you, and you don't know which ones. You might end up avoiding supplies because of the harmless ones.
- the natives know where tidal channels form in coast regions, and where the water pools, you might get surprised by that. Same goes for rain seasons and streams that form. Or animal behaviors that are dependent on certain factors (seal colonies come to mind. Some species of seal are easy peasy friendly dudes, except during mating season, then they will try and kill you).

 

[The Red Devil]

And even if you know it for your home area (like the girl. She literally just continued living the way she had done it all the time, just without other people), you will be in huge danger elsewhere.

That is very true.

While my knowledge would help me in Europe / Northen hemisphere, I have no real knowledge that can be applied on a Pacific island for example.

- fresh water in tropical environments contains a lot of pathogens that your body hasn't seen yet, and has no defenses against. If you don't know that then the diarrhea will get you. Diarrhea in such a situation can easily be your death. Especially when you are alone.

Unless you know where the water comes from, and you are in a rocky area, you should boil or filtrate the water first. In most cases, it will be safe to drink anyway with the only risk being diarrhea, but depending on the season, the amount of small game, (and so on), there can be parasites in the water that can be deadly for you if left untreated. The risk of this depends on the location, but even in Norway we have at least 100 or so cases a year from this due to people drinking water (or melted snow) in nature without boiling/filtrating it first, and need to get treated at the hospital.