8th Ed. Poison Cohorts, option 3

[Lizardmatt]

Just another thought on poison cohorts.
Cohorts with poison cost the same as skirmishing skinks.

If you're plan is to move up, shoot, and stand and fire, then poison might make sense.
While the skirmishers have more effective range (march and shoot), few things are going to cross the 18" threat range of the cohort without them getting a volley off.

After watching how my skinks are working, I'm finding that I get 1 volley off on a decent target (ideally high toughness, poor armor), stand and fire, then die in combat. A unit of 12 will throw out 12 poison shots, another 12 on the stand and fire, and more often than not, another 8 to 12 poison attacks.
36 point shots/attacks is good for ~6 auto wounds from poison, and a handful of S3 hits.

94 points for 12 skinks with musician to rally/swift reform has been pretty solid.

-Matt

 

[Hebus]

I was wondering about a 30+ horde of skinks only with a BSB skaven pelt skink chief, it costs 370ish points, and deliver 20 shots + 20 counter charge shots and then 30 attacks, that's about 10 poison hits.
It seams quite good against monsters without armor but I feel like it's not gonna be effective (unit too big, get mauled by anything else...)

 

[Lizardmatt]

I was wondering about a 30+ horde of skinks only with a BSB skaven pelt skink chief, it costs 370ish points, and deliver 20 shots + 20 counter charge shots and then 30 attacks, that's about 10 poison hits.
It seams quite good against monsters without armor but I feel like it's not gonna be effective (unit too big, get mauled by anything else...)

Can't shoot if you charge. Cant stand and fire if you charge.
You can charge 18".
Frenzy means you're risking throwing away the whole plan, every time any enemy is within 18".

-Matt

 

[Draxack]

True but skirmishers throw out twice as many shots
with blowguns.

 

[Lizardmatt]

True but skirmishers throw out twice as many shots
with blowguns.

Maybe.
Movement, double fire and range means that the BACK rank has to be within 6" to do that, which means that front rank is within 5", maybe 4" depending on the angle you are at.

Going point blank to double fire may mean you are giving up your stand and fire, and are so close that if you flee, you get caught.

In my skink lists, I'm going with 2x12 cohorts with poison and musicians, 2x10 cohorts with musicians, and 2x10 skirmishers with blowguns. I'll use the poison to take the charge, the poison free to flee the charge, and the blowguns to try and slip between enemy lines. Combined with chameleons and massed terra/rippers, it's the lizardman version of wood elves.

-Matt

 

[Dreadgrass]

I like the idea, gives a bit more bite to our chaff and gives more tactical flexibility. Any particular reason for units of 12? Mainly for the average of 2 poisons? My only real concern is will it be worth the over 50% price increase over 10 cohort with muso (or just under twice the price of a base 10 strong cohort)?

Im liking the 40 skink poison cohort so far, essentially using poison and more skinks in lieu of Krox. It makes for a very versatile unit. Will have to test run these smaller ones in support.

 

[Smexygor]

Not to mention cover and skirmishers adding more penalties. I rarely double tapped, javs are just a better average choice if I am playing all comers.

 

[Draxack]

Well we already know that skinks are usually going to die
against anything they shoot at beacuse what else are you going
to use poioned (from what I can tell still allows a armor save)
skinks against, definitly not tar pits or high armor
units like Knights of Chaos (which'll still mulch skinks)
and considering that it doesn't take much to scare off skinks
wouldn't you just rather flee when they declare charge because
you will most likely lose the unit anyway?

 

[Hebus]

Can't shoot if you charge. Cant stand and fire if you charge.
You can charge 18".
Frenzy means you're risking throwing away the whole plan, every time any enemy is within 18".

-Matt

Well, what you're aiming for is not to charge, but get charged. You'd only lose 1 in combat resolution, but you'd get 40 more shots. Moreover, you'd keep them from possibly dying one more turn.
Frenzy can look like a problem, but it's a small one : with BSB, cold blooded and LD6, it's about 90% success. With the general around, it goes up to 95%.

I think that's the best way to get the most of poison and make it "good".

 

[Dreadgrass]

Hmmm... I have thought about the skavenpelt banner on my horde, but a few con's hold me back:

1) Cost - over 100pts (gear depending) Combined with the cost of poison means Im investing a large chunk of points in making a mediocre unit combat efficient. It's also spending over 10pts per attack which is more expensive than it would be to upgrading the entire front rank to unit champions (not that that is possible, but it seemed a decent comparison) but without the upsides of a front rank full of characters (minimal CR) and with the other downsides below.

2) Frenzy downsides - whilst yes, they can be mitigated there is still a chance your unit that is built around shooting/stand and shoot will charge (and possibly fail charge) off at an inopportune time, plus forced overrun AND pursuit is worse than PF's downsides.

3) Fragility - Kinda ties in with cost, but your unit-buffing BSB that's worth 100+ points and 200+ VP's is on a T3, 2W, 4+ save with 6+ parry character and has the express goal of getting into combat. Losing the BSB also loses you those wonderful re-rolls that can make-or-break any army, especially one that runs large quantities of skinks.