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8th Ed. Owned by Warriors of Chaos need solution!

SanDiegoSurrealist
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SanDiegoSurrealist

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1st week of the league and I got hammered by WoC.

Mostly by 1 unit:
22 Chosen of Tzeentch w/Halberds

Before the game starts opponent rolls on the Eye of the Gods, gets 4+ Ward Save (which is now 3+ because of Tzeench) then the war shrine hits it with +1 Str. and then had some Rage Banner or other BS

Chewed though a A.Steg, TG and unit of Saurus. I only managed to take out 7 or 8 of them all game. He was rolling exceptionally well on his amour and 3+ ward saves is just insane.

On the table next to us another WoC player did basically the exact same thing to an Empire player.

Last league there was only 1 WoC player this league there are closer to 4 or 5 all using this same tactic.

So how, as LM, do we beat it?
 
Well the Lore of Metal is usualy the bane of all heavily armored troops... ;)
 
n810 said:
Well the Lore of Metal is usualy the bane of all heavily armored troops... ;)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately league restriction prevent that, have to choose Lore before the league starts and you only get 2.

Mine are Life and Heavens

and had to take Heavens as my second so I can use Skink Priests.
 
Looks like dwellers below and any magic items that will negate armor will be you best bet. Probably should take the other tricksters shard to help negate some of those ward saves too.

EOTG will ignore armor saves as well. Maybe next time, he will not get the 4+(3+) ward save.
 
Arli said:
Looks like dwellers below and any magic items that will negate armor will be you best bet. Probably should take the other tricksters shard to help negate some of those ward saves too.

EOTG will ignore armor saves as well. Maybe next time, he will not get the 4+(3+) ward save.
Click to expand...


Dwellers is only good for 3 or 4 against Str 5.

Yeah EoTG may be a good choice. Had a Chief on a Steg w/ WarSpear did 3 impact hits (rolled double 1s) against a the War Shire and then was bogged down against it all game.
 
Tough going San Diego, there are definitely a lot of elite melee troops out there that put our Saurus to shame. Razor banner could be of some use I suppose...maybe hit them with CoC at the some time...but definitely wear them down first with Sallies (-3 AS). Sounds like bad dice had a hand in this too. Better luck next time!
 
Don't get in combat with it. Seriously. Let you sallies dance with them, they'll only have their ward save (if I remember correctly) for every wound you do. I know it's still going to be tough going but that's the only way I can see without him doing some serious damage..
 
Pretty much what Wolf said. I am new to Lizardmen but I know WoC since that's the army I am leaving for Liz.

All those people who are taking 20+ chosen are sinking a lot of points into a unit that can be redirected and EASILY ignored. It is a huge deal and wins 1st days in a couple tournaments because those people they play in the 1st days don't normally know how to redirect or dance around deathstars.

I know it isn't exactly a deathstar (unless it had a crap ton of heroes and characters in it as well) but for how big your opponent was running it, it could be considered one. For your opponent to do that he has to invest almost 600 points to pull off a 22 man chosen unit. Not to mention the 2 warshrines (260-300 pts more) to consistently get the 3+ ward save buff. So lets say he invested the 900ish points necessary to do this...that weakens the rest of his army dramatically. Thats a 600 pt unit running around at only M4 that you can redirect and completely ignore.

One of the things that is getting me to move towards Lizardmen and one of the reasons that WoC don't make almost any big GT day 2 showings is because redirecting. A lot of the top players going into day 2 know how to deal with Chosenstar. Put a squad of skirmishers and angle them in such a way that they will be at the barely to reach mark so you can either A) run away and have him now out of placement, wasting another FULL TURN to readjust back to the proper angle or B) have him charge u and destroy ur skinks but be stuck facing in the wrong direction. If you take option B you now have the opportunity to flank charge him and he will also dish less attacks back because of his width from the side. However, I would just block him some more and keep him running around while I pick apart the rest of the army.

Just keep throwing all the wonderful cheap skirmishing easy to take units in it's way to ignore it while you pick apart the rest of his weakened list. Most WoC players competitively take a L4 Sorc Lord + BSB + Sorc w/ Dispel or BSB on disk. When kited out thats about 600-700 points for both. In a 2500 points game all the things to make Chosen tough and deadly is roughly 900 points worth, then take into account the 700 points of Heroes/Lords and he's only left with 900 points for the rest of his army. WoC are expensive...I can assure you that 900 points left over is pretty much going to be going against your 2000+ points once you learn to properly avoid and redirect his Chosenstar.

Sorry for the super long post...Moving from WoC to Liz and I don't really have much Lizardmen advice to contribute back to the community yet but I do know a lot about WoC :P
 
syypher said:
Put a squad of skirmishers and angle them in such a way that they will be at the barely to reach mark so you can either A) run away and have him now out of placement, wasting another FULL TURN to readjust back to the proper angle or B) have him charge u and destroy ur skinks but be stuck facing in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the thread hijack but I never understood why this works. Surely a smart player wouldn't charge the lowly skinks with a large expensive unit knowing that they will be pulled out of a position and then possibly counter charged in the flank? Of course frenzy can be restrained by a leadership test in 8th edition now so banking on that or banking on stupidity of the opponent doesnt seem worth it? or maybe it is! ;)

Or am I missing something?
 
Well if he doesn't charge the unit with the Chosen then he has to either charge it with something else to get rid of it or manoeuvre around it, which will cost him a turn at least. If he decides to magic the poor guys to bits then he still hasn't gotten rid of them that phase and his Chosen will still have lost a turn of movement.
 
Wolf said:
Well if he doesn't charge the unit with the Chosen then he has to either charge it with something else to get rid of it or manoeuvre around it, which will cost him a turn at least. If he decides to magic the poor guys to bits then he still hasn't gotten rid of them that phase and his Chosen will still have lost a turn of movement.
Click to expand...

^ This

So hes going to waste 1 maybe even 2 turns (remember WoC are very slow like Liz only M4 march 8) to just walk around it. Its sitting in front of him so if he charges with something else, now hes blocking himself with his own unit...it's not something you can just ignore.
 
For some reason I was picturing the baiting skinks being slightly off to the side! ;) It all makes sense now with them being slightly in front.
 
What do you guys think about this unit to fight off the Chosen Horde?

SKROX unit 6 wide that has an all Skink Chief front rank except for BSB who is placed behind Krox because no room in front rank with command.

Tehenhauin casting Lore of Beasts buffs on all the heroes in the unit. He makes the unit unbreakable and add d6 extra posion attacks, and if he gets Transformation by chance and can get it off all the better.

Skink Chief
Other Tricksters Shard
Extra Hand Weapon
Light Armour


Skink Chief
BSB + Skaven Pelt Banner or Razor Standard; cant make up my mind.
Light Armour & Shield


Skink Chief
Extra Hand Weapon
Light Armour


Skink Chief
Venom of the FireFly Frog
Extra Hand Weapon
Gamblers Armour

Skink Chief
Enchanted Shield
Light Armour


24 x Skinks w/command
3 x Krox



Have a Life Slann right behind the unit pumping buffs and heals into it.


I know it is a bit extreme to take out one unit but that unit really pissed me off and I want to break it!
It has become my White Whale!
 
Nice idea, but to be honest I don't think it will work. Even with +3T from Lore of Beasts he'll be wounding the chiefs on 5s or 4s if he gets the +1S with the warshrines.. and as soon as he kills on of the brave skinks then he'll be taking out your BSB and then it's just going to go downhill from there on. Worth a try though, who knows you might prove me wrong :) it's happened before :D
 
Like everyone else mentioned Chosen are a ridiculously hard unit. The best method I've found to handle them (outside of PoS or dwellers etc) is to do basically what syypher said. Feed them small blocks of skirmishers to pull them away from other stuff until you can get a flank in on them.

I've found salamanders to be fairly effective, but this is all they will be shooting at for much of the game.

Depending on how the deployment ends up I have put a couple units of chameleons on their flanks or behind the chosen away from their other troops. This forces him to either turn his chosen to handle them or to reroute something else over there. 20 to 40 poison shots from 2 units will eventually start causing panic tests and making them more manageable if they just ignore the chameleons.
 
you could try to go magic heavy and run two slann- both with lore master and focus rum.
one takes life the other takes light or shadow, perferable shadow
play a castle tatic,
as there trying to get in close combat with you try to mystify miasma there movement, enfebling foe them into a dwellers, if it works it should kill a fair amount
when they do reach you in close comabt try playing magic heavy and overwhelm them, they cant stop everyspell
use hexes from shadow like myst miasma, to mess with there weapon skill( it goes off on a 5), enf foe lowers there streangth by d3 hopefully it will help a little
on the life side you augment
flesh of stone to go give Tough 7 or 8 saurus, try shield of thorns, and if they make it to temple gaurd try using earthblood
shadow has more synergy, light has more augment ability, they cost low and are fair for close combat
idk its worth a try though.
 
Get to pick two Lore at start of league and that’s all you get. Mine are Heavens and Life. So no-can-do on the Shadow. I am allowed to use Beast if I take 250 point Special Lord Character who is lvl 2 Beast Wizard.

I was thinking I could just sit castled up in the farthest corner of the table from them and Drop Comets on them all day.
 
As much as I would like to say that taking Tehehuin will work, I think you will be relying on it too much. Keep in mind that you will possibly not get the spells you want. He is only a lvl 2 caster. If he was a loremaster, I would say go for it.

If I were you, I would go with a life slann and two stegadons. EOTG will not allow armor saves. A skink chief (with spear) will give you 2d6+1 impact hits. Other than that, feed him skirmishers. You should also take a few units o f chameleons and/or Terradons to hunt the hellfire cannon (or whatever it is called).
 
Another take on redirecting warriors of Chaos.....


jenkin1.jpg


jenkin2.jpg


jenkin3.jpg


Sorry couldn't resist posting it here because it was topical...

More Spawning of Bob in "Lizardmen Fluff"

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6957
 
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