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8th Ed. Noobtraps to avoid?

Pretty Cold Guy
Jungle Swarm

Pretty Cold Guy

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So I have the feeling this has likely been asked many times, but i'm completely new to the army, and Warhammer Fantasy actually having just switched over from 40.

My main question is what should I avoid? Is there anything that looks tantalizing on paper but fails to deliver on the table? From parsing over the forums i'm getting the feeling Saurus are not as good as I originally thought.
 
The biggest newbie trap is that almost everything we have requires the buddy system or a rock-paper-scissors matchup.

By rock-paper-scissors I mean most units counter the unit that counters what counters them.

Overly simplified example: Skirmishers beat artillery. Artillery beats dinosaurs. Dinosaurs beats infantry, infantry beats skirmishers.

Saurus Warriors well do well against low strength Core (most Elf or Vampire Counts Core) but they will not hold their own against tougher Core such as Warriors of Chaos or most Special infantry. Saurus Warriors need magical buffs from friendly wizards and/or a supporting dinosaur.

Likewise our big dinosaurs require backup. Stegadons and Ancient Stegadons do a lot of damage on the charge but they can't break steadfast enemies by themselves. If you don't back them up with infantry of some kind they will probably be bogged down and nickeled and dimed to death. The dinosaur will do lots of damage, but it won't win by itself. Bastiladons are hard to kill outright but they have poor leadership scores and mediocre attacks. If they don't have a friendly infantry unit providing ranks and CR then they will often runaway despite being practically undamaged.

A Salamander will burn enemy infantry very nicely but they struggle against enemy chaff which can be hard to hit with the flame template and mobile enough to catch them. You need to defend your Salamanders with various other Skirmishers (I like Razordons for this role but I'm in the minority).

About the only stand alone units we have are Temple Guard with Slann (and I guess t. he Slann and the Temple Guard are two units) and maybe our flyers (since flyers are maneuverable enough to pick soft targets. Oh speaking of flyers. One trap is always Vanguard. Just because you can Vanguard doesn't mean you should. Moving ahead is good, but exposing yourself to an easy charge of a stronger enemy unit is not good, especially Rippers which are not allowed to flee when they have Frenzy.
 
Oh and don't paint your favorite models first, ;)
You'll thank me later. :D
 
Hey Cold Guy, welcome to the Forum!


I feel like what you might be asking is more along the lines of 'which units should I avoid buying?' If this is the case I think we can answer that in the following:

Don't Take:

Don't make a Troglodon (Carno/Trog Kit) - He just generally doesn't work. For what you pay for in points, you can add redundancy elsewhere, and achieve many of the same things he can (with the exception of the roar) elsewhere. For a model that costs as much as it does ($), make it a Carnosaur, or don't buy the kit.

Chakax - I still don't understand this guy. Like 2x the points that he should be.

Tiq'Taq'To - His abilities are weirdish and suggest that the authors meant to override some BRB rules, but failed to directly do so - avoid him for now, and see what an FAQ or 9th ed. brings.

You can take, but it's sub-optimal and will often leave you frustrated:

The Carnosaur (Oldblood or Scar Vet versions). While an awesome kit and model, you will find that his stats just don't quite add up where they need to, especially when facing the most common opponents (Elves, Warriors, and Daemons). Just a touch too expensive for what he does, and really lacking in some important offensive and defensive stats (WS 3 makes me sad).

Swarm-making Bastiladon - you will find that typically the Solar Engine is a waay better choice (and worth making the kit that way, or magnetizing it at worst). For the points, a model that makes additional swarms on a 4+, you could just buy 4 more swarms. His offensive stats aren't good enough to make him worth that ability, typically.

Blowpipe option on your Skink Skirmishers - just try it out before you build them that way. You should very quickly see that Javelins are the way to go.

Spears on Saurus - Whilst Saurus are often considered a sub-optimal choice in general (I field 1 unit of 25 to good effect), the Spear upgrade typically isn't worth the additional attacks. The Parry save from the shields will help you grind your opponents better, in a typical engagement.

Less necessary because your Core already fills this role

Razordons - I think this is a very good unit, honestly - but your core choice of Javelin Skinks can do mostly the same job. In reality, the Razordons add the Close Combat punch after the shooting. You can definitely make this unit work with magical support, and it's decent without it, but I would just put it lower on your purchase list.

With work and practice, I think players can make everything else in the Lizard list work. Some are easier or harder than others, dependent on the play-style you develop. Hopefully this will save you a bit of kit buying waste.
 
I have three tips:


1. Positioning is essential in Warhammer fantasy. Always think at least one turn ahead. Look at your opponents units in your movement phase, and imagine where your opponent can move in their next movement phase, before moving your own models. The movement phase is extremely important. Exposing flanks and opening up for ideal charges for your opponent is a common "noob mistake".

2. Knowing which of your units you should send attacking which of your opponents is the single most important thing IMO, and the way to get good at this is trial and error. Reading the other army books helps, and asking your opponent for stat lines, equipment and special rules during deployment, but the only way to get good at this is through experience.

3. Don't over estimate the value of a charge. It only adds 1+ combat res for the charger, so it is not as important as you might think. It is often safer to march up, shoving your blocks down your opponents throat, forcing them to charge in their turn, rather than attempting a long charge. Especially if you have many points in one unit, with magical banners and characters, it is important to get that unit to work (in close combat) swiftly. So march forward!
 
Don't think saurus warriors are invincible. Be careful with those guys or just get skinks instead. Saurus with wyssans are awesome, templeguards with the same are even more.

Rippers can be fun, but due to low initiative they'll likely lose models before they hit. Not to mention a lot of other problems. If you take 6 with 4 in front you have extra wounds to sacrifice.

Kroxigors can be fun as well. Apply same as above: don't take 3, take six or more. If you decide to take then that is.

Don't get too far away with skinks from your general. Ld 5 is not good. Like wise don't have your whole flank full of ld5 models anyway from the general. Been there done that.

If you take carnosaur choose your fights wisely. T5 isn't good against S5+ enemies who'll most likely hit first.
 
Thanks for all the tips! I just played my first game the other day against my Empire Buddy. The rundown was pretty much like this

-Saurus with a Skink Priest chewed through one in a half Swordsmen blobs.
-Temple Guard got hit with a Swordsman charge and an Inner Knight charge on the same turn but managed to hold thanks to the wonders of Cold Blooded.
-Skinks were absolutely annoying as hell, and managed to keep his Calvary occupied for two whole turns before breaking.
-Low initiative really sucks, but having been an Ork player in 40k, i'm used to it at this point.
-Cold One Calvary or as I like to call them Saurus riding Saurus were awesome shock calvary with spears equipped, and were easily the MVP of the game, taking down a unit of Handgunners before wiping out a unit of Inner Circle Knights.

Just ordered my paints today, looking forward to some quality time with my models.
 
Congratulation with the win :) now, go mentally prepare for his retaliation which will inevitably involve demigryphs, more knights, cannons and worst of all the dreaded steam tank :D
 
Pinktaco said:
Congratulation with the win :) now, go mentally prepare for his retaliation which will inevitably involve demigryphs, more knights, cannons and worst of all the dreaded steam tank :D
Click to expand...

My buddy is getting a Cannon and Demigryphs! But has said he's steering clear of the Steamtank (thank Chotec for that)

I myself will be building up to 2500 with a Slann, a couple of Skink Priests and i'm thinking an Ancient Stegadon. Then I looked at Forgeworld and saw the Dread Saurian and started to drool. I'm highly considering getting one for the centerpiece of my army. I figure if you're going to get a T-Rex, you might as well get the biggest one, yea?

The only question I have is where I should run my Skink Priests? With units of Skirmishers? Give one a cloak of feathers and have it fly around? I put one in a block of Saurus but it just feels wrong seeing this 4 foot lizard surrounded by 8 foot Saurus. I'm worried if I put them in units of Skink Skirmishers they'll get eaten up by one thing or another!
 
Congrats on the win against the Empire. The advice in this thread is good. I did not follow it against Dwarves a couple of weeks ago and paid the price.

When I run Skink Priests, I put them in with my Skink Skirmishers. This makes the Priests harder to hit as it is -1 to hit when shooting at Skirmishers, and the Priests boost the leadership of the Skirmishers to 6 which helps them stick around a little longer. Just keep the Skirmisher units within 24" of the Slann, and you can use the Arcane Vassal ability to extend the range of your magic missile and direct damage spells.
 
Congrats on your win! I like to keep my skink priests in a skirmishers unit ajacent to a saurus or TG block. I usually run beasts so he's nearby to cast wyssans and also to prevent PF overrun. On the plus side if the skink unit starts to get hammered he can hop into your saurus; just remember to decline challenges with him so he moves to the back rank away from combat. I also will put him in a unit of 12 skinks so they need to kill 4 to force a panic check from ranged; it's 14 more points and I couldn't tell you the number of times I've lost 3 skinks tgo shooting. My most important piece of advice is have fun and don't sweat the small stuff. If you surround yourself with good guys they won't mind if you backtrack to move that unit that you forgot about etc. and on that note play like you are reading a book; from left to right looking across the board in every phase to remind yourself what needs to be done. Welcome to fantasy!
 
As another 40k convert, and I hope this is the right thread for this as I'm not trying to hijack it, how should our units run with champion, music, and standard bearers? I was thus far only getting champs for units with priests of other characters to assist with grinding the enemy or to take a sucker challenge vs some super character. Not seeing much use for musicians, but I like the idea of a jungle full of wild sounds accompanying wild colors. Thank you.
 
Full command for saurus and guard, muso and flag for skinks and a champ if intending to bunker, flag on cav with champ if running a bus but not if just looking for look out sirs. I wouldn't bother with command options on anything else.
 
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