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7th Ed. Noob Fighting Daemons at 1750

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Jungle Swarm

Apothete

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As I mentioned in my introduction post, my main opponent is a good friend of mine who only plays Daemons. This is a natural and correct enemy for my lizards to be facing but I'm new enough to the game to want advice on the list I've drawn up.

He tends to favor Daemonettes and other Slaaneshi themes over pure crunch, but he still has over 6000 points to draw from in creating my opposition. I'm keeping that in mind when I create my lists and as I buy models, since I don't want this to be the slaughter it was when I faced him using his Daemons against what are now my lizards.

So, two draft lists follow:


List the First

Heroes

Skink Priest
-Dispell Scroll, Plaque of Tepok, Ancient Stegadon with Engine

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Burning Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One, BSB

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Biting Blade, Maiming Shield, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Cold One, General

Special

Temple Guard x16
-Full Command

Cold One Cavalry x5
-Full Command

Core

Saurus Warriors x13
-Full Command, Spears

Saurus Warriors x13
-Full Command, Spears

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

Total Cost - 1748



List the Second

Heroes

Skink Priest
-Dispell Scroll, Plaque of Tepok, Ancient Stegadon with Engine

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Burning Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One, BSB

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Biting Blade, Maiming Shield, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Cold One, General

Special

Cold One Cavalry x6
-Full Command

Terradon Riders x3
-Brave

Core

Saurus Warriors x13
-Full Command, Spears

Saurus Warriors x13
-Full Command, Spears

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

Rare

Razordon Hunting Pack x2

Total Cost - 1742


In both lists, I'm planning on attaching the Saurus Vets to the Warrior regiments and using them as anvil units with opportunities to hammer if they manage to clear something between them. My Temple Guard are the real anchor unit in the first list and the Saurus are backup with the ability to bring second-rank attacks to bear if they wheel in and flank. The skinks are there for harassment and shooting which is why they're bare bones and minimum deployment. The Engine seems like a natural choice against Daemons, especially if my opponent brings magic (which he likes to do), and the Cold Ones are there to get a charge off once I've tied him down on an anvil unit.

I have a few miniatures available right now which could be written into the list but the tactica I've been reading imply that Kroxigors just aren't as good on the battlefield as they are at looking cool. I saw the Razordons used to good effect when I was playing as the Daemons, especially if you can park them and force an opponent to come to you for the stand and shoot dice. Also, if there's a glaring error in tactics against this particular foe that wouldn't be horribly expensive to replace, I'm open to suggestions since I'd like to make this a good, even game on both sides.

Thanks ahead of time.
 
I vote for the second one.

Reasons:
1) No Temple Guard: IMO, Temple Guard are a point sink and I would never take them without a Slann. Honestly, I would not really take them with a Slann either, but that is just personal preference.
2) Terradons. Terradons are golden. They are probably one of the best units in the Lizardmen book. I am a huge fan of them and would not include a list without them.

So advice. Take your Saurus either 6x2 or 6x3. That maximizes their effectiveness, especially with spears. Also, drop the Full Command on them. Small units should not have a full command, as they lose the banner too easily. Other than that it looks good.
 
Thanks for the commentary, Xlcontiqu.

Based on your advice and some further reading, I've modified my list for the current points level. The first mistake I spotted was having the Firefly Venom on a character that had a magical weapon, since it's points spent that won't do anything. I've also dropped commands from all units that aren't enormous blocks, which freed up some points. As sad as it makes me, I also removed my Razordons and replaced them with a single Salamander.

The modified list is:

Heroes

Skink Priest
-Dispell Scroll, Plaque of Tepok, Ancient Stegadon with Engine

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Burning Blade, Maiming Shield, Cold One, BSB

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Piranha Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One, General

Special

Cold One Cavalry x5

Terradon Riders x4
-Brave

Core

Saurus Warriors x16
-Spears

Saurus Warriors x16
-Spears

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

Rare

Salamander Hunting Pack
-Extra Handler

Total Cost - 1744
 
Looks very good.

Two things
1) I would add a Musician to Saurus for rallying purposes. That way if they do break they have a better chance of rallying. And then they may win combat ties, something that has helped me a lot in the past.
2) Drop the Brave on the Terradons. Champions in shooting units tend to me somewhat useless.

Maybe considering getting some skirmishing skinks, though I think both work in most instances.
 
I second Xlontiqu's opinion.
Musician is very nice to have, the brave is not needed and you need skirmishers.
I never love home without 2 units of skirmishers. They are worth the extra points.

Also, I wouldn't take the Piranha Blade; Just to insta-kill his heroes with 1 wound...?
If he has multiple units with more wounds; then it's good. Otherwise, go with Sword of Might or no magic weapon.

If you really only want to change a minimal ammount; add another skink for 5 points! ;)

These aren't big changes, so your list is looking fine.

The Hunted
 
Is your priest with the EoTG level 2? I suppose so but you didn't specify it.
 
Alright, so I went back and took the further advice into account and made some more changes. Here's what I came up with this time.


Heroes

Skink Priest
-Level 2, Dispell Scroll, Plaque of Tepok, Ancient Stegadon with Engine

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Burning Blade, Maiming Shield, Cold One, Light Armor, BSB

Saurus Scar Veteran
-Venom, Enchanted Shield, Cold One, Light Armor, General

Special

Cold One Cavalry x5

Terradon Riders x4

Chamelon Skinks x7

Core

Saurus Warriors x16
-Spears, Musician

Saurus Warriors x16
-Spears, Musician

Skink Skirmishers x10

Skink Skirmishers x10

Rare

Salamander Hunting Pack
-Extra Handler

Total Cost - 1745

For the same points, plus a little extra, I could drop the Chameleons and just add another set of skirmishers. Also, I have the points available as the list stands to give the General either a halberd or spear without changing anything. Fighting on a mount and joined with the Saurus, I'm guessing that the spear would be best so that I still get armor bonus from the shields, correct?
 
Very good list, really nothing wrong with it.

The chameleons or the skirmishers is a matter of personal taste. I would prefer 2 units of skirmishers+1x chameleons. But 3 units of skirmishers are potent too. Like I said, personal taste has a big influence here.

Using the spear is indeed the best option (out of halberd or spear). The best armour save is still HW+Sh. But with the added point of strenght on the charge, it might be worth it.

These changes have no serious impact on the list, so you should be good at all times.

The Hunted
 
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