8th Ed. New to Lizzies, advice needed!

[powellnf]

Hey all,

I have always loved lizzies, but have been a big time beasts of chaos player since 7th edition came out and have never had time to build a lizzie army while my beasts sat unfinished; well, since they're finally finished, I went and picked up a few lizzie core units and the army book and have begun throwing around list ideas, but wanted to see what you all thought. Here's the most basic outline of my list, and where the majority of my ideas are heading- C&C more than welcome!

Slann
-Focus of mystery, Higher State of Consciousness
-Divine Plaque of Protection, Cupped Hands
-lore of life

Oldblood
-light armor, shield
-carnosaur
-Scimitar of sun resplendent, maiming shield

Scar Vet
-great weapon
-light armor, shield
-BSB, Piranha blade

30 saurus warriors
-Musician, Standard

30 saurus warriors
-Musician, Standard, Spears

40 skinks
-Musician, Standard

12 skirmishers

12 skirmishers

19 Temple Guard
-Musician, Standard

10 CoC
-Musician, Standard

Stegadon
-Giant Bow

Total: 3000 ish

Thanks people, cheers
-Nick

 

[Pwidget]

I would drop the CoC, I find them too expensive, thats a 400 point unit that I personally don't think is worth it. I love chameleon skinks, they destroy things your opponent tries to hide (Warmachines, lone wizards, Monsters, etc.).

Salamanders are really nice for frying those large blocks of infantry that seem popular for a lot of armies. If you dropped a template on say, a horde of skaven clan rats, you're going to wound each model on 4+ and destroy their armor save, AND cause panic tests on top of that. Lot of bang for 80 points (I ALWAYS take the extra handler.

Also the 2 disciplines I will run on every slann are mystery and rumination. They synergize so well that you can cast almost all the spells in that lore every turn, even on a mediocre PD roll of like 7. You may not get both Dwellers Below and Regrowth off, but you're gonna get throne of vines, flesh to stone, earthblood, shield of thorns, awakening of the wood, and maybe regrowth off. There is absolutely no way an opponent can get rid of all of those, especially if they are smart and chuck a lot of dice at dispelling Throne of Vines. If you want to take a 3rd one (and I would) at 3000 points then I recommend Becalming Cogitation, it destroys opponent's magic phase.

I've never played with a carnosaur, but I hear that they are hardcore cannon fodder now.

Can you take both great weapon and pirannha blade on that Scar Vet? Or even any magic items in combo with making him BSB?

A unit of Skink cohorts by itself with no skrox is just a waste of points that won't do a whole lot.

Just some things from my view, but I'm also not the most experienced lizzie general

 

[liath]

I don't claim to be an expert but I think your 40 skinks are too big. They're not good in close combat, better to split them out and have them in blocks of skirmishers (which are great at harassing and getting in the way of charges).

Personally I've found the great bow on the steggy to be a real disappointment, I'm running the blowpipes this time to see if that has more impact.

Like the look of everything else but protect that carnosaur, he makes a great pin cushion.

 

[Xul]

definitely take rumination for the slann. consciousness can help as a workaround against non-magical attacks, when you want to run the slann alone or in a saurus unit, but you can safely drop it, if you run him in a TG unit (in the end, swapping saurus for TG will not cost you much more than the consciousness discipline and is way more efficient overall).
salamanders are very useful and cost efficient in 8th, I recommend 2 or more. on the other hand, IMO COC and the steg are very expensive and not very useful in 8th. you can find several discussions on that in the forums.
you should include some skink chameleons, as WM and lone character hunters.
concerning the skink cohort, it is way too big and not sure how you want to use it. in CC it will suffer and will not get many kills (low WS). it may hold a while due to steadfast, if you put it 5x8, but not for long. smaller cohorts can be used as distraction/harrasers and for throwing their javelins, but skirmishers are much better in that role. to sum up: I would drop them an get some saurus and skirmishers instead.
you may also consider adding a skink priest as dispel scroll caddy (and maybe to even get off a cheap spell here and then).

 

[SeBM]

I have to say I personnally like the Ancient Steg a lot. The 2 blowpipes are really nice to have and T6 with stubborn makes the Steg hard to get rid of. I suggest making your slann the BSB and making the Scar-Vet a pure combat character.

At 3k pts, I suggest using 4x10 Skink Skirmishers. These guys are dirt cheap and real nasty thanks to poison.

Saurus Cavalry usually end up just taking ennemy fire away from my main units but that's fine with me. I use a unit of 5 and stick a mounted Scar-Vet with them. Just don't expect them to kill much, and you can also send the vet elsewhere.

I'd drop the CoC, add some chameleons and some salamanders. Also change the regular stegadon for an ancient stegadon.

 

[powellnf]

Wow, thats a lot of great feedback, thank you all for taking the time to post such thought out replies- it certainly helps to see the reasoning behind the choices! Here's my updated 3k list, let me know what you think:

Slann
-BSB, Mystery, Rumination, Cogitation
-Plaque of Protection, Cupped Hands
-lore of life

Oldblood
-Light armor, Scimitar of Sun Resplendent, maiming shield
-carnosaur

scar vet
-light armor, shield, piranha blade

skink priest
-dispell scroll, lore of heavens

30 saurus
-musician, standard

30 saurus
-spears, musician, standard

2x10 skink skirmishers

2x10 chameleons

19 temple guard
-musician, standard

2x salamanders
-additional handlers

Ancient Stegadon

I believe the total comes to 2979; the plan is to use the blocks of saurus and temple guard/slann to form the center of my line, using the chameleons to hunt down war machines, lone wizards/monsters/characters, and using the skirmishers to harrass and bait uniits, to allow my carnosaur and stegadon to do some damage, all the while my salamanders will be targeting large blocks of troops, softening them for a charge from my temple guard/saurus units. thoughts?

Cheers,
Nick

 

[vapor]

You'll want to try to squeeze in a champion into your TG to avoid getting your Slann challenged. Beyond that, the list looks really solid and fun.

 

[SeBM]

That's one nice looking list. I'd try and find a way to squeeze in one last unit of Skink Skirmishers, maybe by dropping your chameleon units down to 8. I assume your are putting the Saurus Scar-Veteran in the TG unit ?

This list is similar to what I ran at 2500 against DoC last week-end (minus the carnosaur and the sallies) and I really liked how it performed. That Slann Build is just so good!

 

[powellnf]

You assume correctly, the scar vet sits in with the TG, hence no champion in that unit- although, dropping the chameleons down to 8 is doable as well...anything else you recommend tweaking minutely in the list? I was thinking about giving my skinks javelins instead of blowpipes- any suggestions on which version works best, or which type of enemies each weapon is better at confronting?

Thanks for the comments, keep em coming!

Cheers,
Nick

 

[vapor]

You assume correctly, the scar vet sits in with the TG, hence no champion in that unit- although, dropping the chameleons down to 8 is doable as well...anything else you recommend tweaking minutely in the list? I was thinking about giving my skinks javelins instead of blowpipes- any suggestions on which version works best, or which type of enemies each weapon is better at confronting?

Thanks for the comments, keep em coming!

Cheers,
Nick

Even with the vet there you'll want a champ who can take the challenge of a nasty combat lord, then get regrown repeatedly. It's worth it.

 

[SeBM]

Agreed with Vapor on the Champion.

For the Skink Skirmishers, NEVER take anything but blowpipes. More attacks with poison is what you want!

 

[powellnf]

Good call, I will certainly find room for a champion in the TG. My next question would be in regards to formations- for my saurus, is it best to go 5 wide and 6 deep, or 6 wide and 5 deep, or is it better to go for a horde formation at 10x3? Same question goes for the skirmishers, as they now also "rank up" to some degree. For the TG it makes sense to go 6 wide and 4 deep, with the slann in the middle obviously. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Nick

 

[SeBM]

I use my saurus 5 wide and 6 rank deep. Makes me stay in combat forever and nullifies a lot of attacks from big unit. I feel like you start loosing attacks way to fast with only 30 in a unit. Also, nothing prevents you from reforming if the occasion present itself. Finally, it's easier to manoeuvre units with less frontage.

 

[vapor]

Saurus with Spears work best in 6 wide 5 deep in my opinion. You get the maximum number of attacks across just about any frontage (excluding Brettonian lance formation and certain monsters/characters) and still retain a lot of T4 4+ AS bodies to break/keep steadfast. Worse comes to worse start them in 5x6 then maximize frontage after the first round of combat or just before getting charged.

I don't think that horde formation works for any of our units, Saurus and Krox (Skrox)are too expensive while Skinks are too fragile.