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AoS New to AOS, Need help with Dealing with SE/Mortal Wound

buttrephly
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buttrephly

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Hi, I'm New to AOS just started the hobby this month.
I already finished building my 1000pt Death army and now I choose to start the second army which is the Seraphon because Angry lizard riding a Dinosaur is too cool to pass on.

OK now to the things I need help/advice
I got the second-hand start collecting Seraphon for 60% of the price (he also got 1 more which I didn't bought from him yet) and build, converted everything (oldblood on cold-one from Knight, Skink priest from dino rider) and get to play them.

The first game I fight the local Ironjawz which from my opinion was not too hard because I proxy warrior as guard and they got 3+ save (and to 2+ when in cover) ignore rend which can re-roll from priest, get the Knight to assasinate the war-chanter, and 2 perfect arcane bolt to take down the already wounded megaboss.

But for the second game I go with my mate, he got the Stormcast Eternal. This battle I think if he hadn't messed up on his movement phase I woud got tabled for sure. (I won from victory point because he mis-played on every movement phase and didn't grab the objective) Because his army can pump Mortal wound very easily, Paladin with 2 starsoul mace can generate 2 times d3 mortal wound, Lord celestant roll d6 dice to throw the that many hammer and roll 4+ for mortal wound, Lord relictor got d3 mortal wound spell on 4, and Kinght-heraldor who can generate mortal wound on enemy in cover.

at second turn all my Guards are gone from his mortal wound combo, I left with only Sunblood, Scar-vet on Carnosaur, Star-priest which I have to avoid combat and just spam arcane bolt from star priest and go for the objective, which I think is very devastated despite that I won.

So here are my list against him
1000pt
Scar-vet on Caunosaur
Sunblood (Borrow from shop)
Skink priest (Converted)
Skink star-priest

3 units of 5 Guards (Proxy from 10 warriors in the box and borrow 5 from shop)
1 unit of Chamelon (Borrow from shop)

From my beginner point of view, I don't know how to deal with these Mortal-wound generates army which 70% of players at my local shop play Stormcast.

Do you guys have any advice for what I should get next to build my army up to 1000 or even to 2000 points? or any tactic that I should use when facing with SE

and for my play-style I tend to be more defensive player.

Thank you

ps. Sorry for my English, I'm from Thailand and English is not my first language :)
 
SE have very little defence against magic and artillery so maybe look to bolster that area, Lord kroak, bastiladon, Skink Starseer come to mind.
 
buttrephly said:
Hi, I'm New to AOS just started the hobby this month.
Click to expand...

Hello!

Your problem is that TG are awful if you face a high mortal wounds army. They are a costly and slow elite unit, with just one wound each, and this makes them the PERFECT target for MW.
Use skinks as battleline: you will save lots of points so take other meleers (kroxigor?) and you will have some decent screen unit that's fast and can also give some shooting.

Screens for your heroes are useful, because SE not only deal mortal wounds, but they can also enter melee since turn one, with the right combo (harder at 1000 pts, but that's the way SE work).

buttrephly said:
Do you guys have any advice for what I should get next to build my army up to 1000 or even to 2000 points? or any tactic that I should use when facing with SE
Click to expand...

I've made a thread (HERE) with examples on tactics you can use to defend yourself from mortal wounds and teleport and (luckily for you) in the examples I've used also SE.
 
You haven't got much to work with at 1000 points. But @Crowsfoot is right a slann or starseer with those guard and an eternity warden would be helpful.
And a faster cheaper army would work better. Skinks for battle line and maybe a shadowstrike, or something and a stegadon instead of the scarvet.
Are the games normally 1000 or do you plan on moving up?
 
Crowsfoot said:
SE have very little defence against magic and artillery so maybe look to bolster that area, Lord kroak, bastiladon, Skink Starseer come to mind.
Click to expand...
Killer Angel said:
Hello!

Your problem is that TG are awful if you face a high mortal wounds army. They are a costly and slow elite unit, with just one wound each, and this makes them the PERFECT target for MW.
Use skinks as battleline: you will save lots of points so take other meleers (kroxigor?) and you will have some decent screen unit that's fast and can also give some shooting.

Screens for your heroes are useful, because SE not only deal mortal wounds, but they can also enter melee since turn one, with the right combo (harder at 1000 pts, but that's the way SE work).



I've made a thread (HERE) with examples on tactics you can use to defend yourself from mortal wounds and teleport and (luckily for you) in the examples I've used also SE.
Click to expand...


Hi, Thank you both for the great advice, I see light at the end of the tunnel now, and Killer Angel sorry for not take a look at your topic before posting this first, I should've read that. T T
 
Bowser said:
You haven't got much to work with at 1000 points. But @Crowsfoot is right a slann or starseer with those guard and an eternity warden would be helpful.
And a faster cheaper army would work better. Skinks for battle line and maybe a shadowstrike, or something and a stegadon instead of the scarvet.
Are the games normally 1000 or do you plan on moving up?
Click to expand...

Hi Bowser, Thanks for your advice

Hmm.. since most of the players there play SE, guess I should buy the Skinks before more Warriors box (which I would proxy them to be Guard sometime since everyone are cool with this.)

The game normally play at 1000 now because this shop just opened for 2 months and they haven't finished the large table yet, but for my preference I would love to play at 2000.
 
Mortal Wounds are very strong against Seraphon but Stormcast are pretty easy to play around. You have to look at each source of Mortal Wounds they can put out and play accordingly to minimize the damage they can do.

Retributors
Retributors are the biggest source of MW, they should be focus fired and killed as quickly as possible. Use the Skink Starpriest spell Summon Starlight to reduce their Hit rolls by 1, negating their Blast to Ashes special ability.
Use a screen of Saurus Warriors or Skinks to absorb the charge and then pile in with a unit like a Stegadon or Carnosaur to deal massive damage to the Retributors.

Lord-Celestant (on foot)
If they are running a Lord-Celestant (on foot) as their general then he needs to die ASAP because his +1 Hit buff is very powerful with Retributors and Concussors.
His hammer cloak only has a 16" range but it can be used in the Shooting phase so he can move before using it. It is worth noting that he can run and use the cloak, so keep that in mind. If you are struggling with this ability then try bringing a Skink Starseer to force him to reroll his results (+Curse of Fates) but it generally shouldn't do too much damage.
As a side note, if this is their general then the Stormcast army is going to be very weak to Battleshock phases so bring a Carnosaur to get some Bloodroar action.

Knight-Vexillor
An indirect source of MW but worth a mention. Check the other threads on this forum to learn how to deal with his teleport ability properly; deep strike is a HUGE part of the AOS metagame and you must know how to beat it.

Relictor
Only has a 12" range on his prayer and it must be done in the Hero phase. Easy to stay out of range, but be aware that your opponent could get two turns in a row and put himself in range.

Dracoths
Stick a Bastiladon into melee with these units ASAP and stay out of range of their breath attacks until you are ready to focus fire. Use Razordons and Salamanders to focus fire these units down.
 
Thanks PJetski, for the in-depth guide, and yes most of them use Lord-Celestant (on foot) as General when facing me, from what I've got the model now I have to remove him with Arcane bolt and focus him in melee
 
Well, its kinda on topic so...
I have a problem. There is a new general in my city, threatening the dominion of lizards and their undisputed rule. The beastclaw riders.
We used to play whfb together and now he joined the AoS club. He beat my Khorne Bloodbound and i finaly see someone fitting to end the winning streak of my lizards since july 2015.
His army is simple. General on stormhorn, frostlord on thundertusk, two units of mournfangs, some meaningless additions of hunters on foot, sabertusks.
That is a massive amount of mourtal wounds. I can deal with those in CC- we have two SE players and i now how to deal with them. The beastclaws are inflicting them i shooting. LIKE A TON!
18 inches, 6 MW, no dice rolling, nothing. Boom, you are dead. Plus the vulture.
Inflicting 12 wounds, with a 4+ save will be difficult from far and closing in will relust in a "freindly hug" from stonehorn and mournfangs. CC MW, mentioned earlier.
The guy did his homework. He ussualy picks the key heroes, eliminating the synergy.

Im calling this meeting of scar-veterans and oldbloods, so we can share our wisdom and ensure that our race will rule undisputed!
 
The Thundertusk shooting attack is devastating but it has a fixed threat range (move + 18") and the attack gets weaker as you weaken them (6 > D6 > D3). You need to keep your heroes away from the Thundertusk at all costs. Use line of sight to your advantage by hiding behind terrain and your own units.

Shadowstrike Starhost is pretty good at dealing with Beastclaw because they don't have any good screening units so abuse that weakness with deep striking units. You can stick Chameleon Skinks right into melee with Stonehorns to deny them a charge bonus (and if you position properly you can get a 3+ cover save to stall for more time) and your Ripperdactyls can do significant damage to a Thundertusk after dropping from the clouds. These tactics are merely to delay the big monsters until your big hitters (Stegadon, Carnosaur, Salamander) can get into range to put the hurt on them.

On the defensive side of things you absolutely want a Bastiladon up front to absorb the brunt of the impact. Consider bringing Skinks as your Battleline - they make an excellent disposable screen which allows you to riposte and pile in heavy hitters like Saurus Guard or a Stegadon.
Thunderquake Starhost is a good defensive formation against Beastclaw, since your Bastiladon can reliably survive a Stonehorn charge and then heal D3 every turn.

Starseer is a great choice against Beastclaw because you can reroll Turn Priority rolls and get two turns in a row, which can be enough to kill a Thundertusk before it gets another round of shooting!

Beastclaw Raiders are arguably the best army in the game so don't feel bad about losing the first few times
 
These are great points my saurian brother ;) i will test them in battle!
 
Buldi said:
Well, its kinda on topic so...
I have a problem. There is a new general in my city, threatening the dominion of lizards and their undisputed rule. The beastclaw riders.
We used to play whfb together and now he joined the AoS club. He beat my Khorne Bloodbound and i finaly see someone fitting to end the winning streak of my lizards since july 2015.
His army is simple. General on stormhorn, frostlord on thundertusk, two units of mournfangs, some meaningless additions of hunters on foot, sabertusks.
That is a massive amount of mourtal wounds!
Click to expand...

It could be worse, considering the new battallions they have at disposal. 3 Stonehorns with general, or 3 Thundertusks.
The problem is that those damned beasts are battleline, so they simply laugh at the limit on behemoths.
Mournfangs on charge are deadly tnx to mortal wounds, and they have a formation that let the general attack and after him a unit of mournfang can attack immediately, shredding you to pieces.
They are.... excessive.


PJetski said:
The Thundertusk shooting attack is devastating but it has a fixed threat range (move + 18") and the attack gets weaker as you weaken them (6 > D6 > D3). You need to keep your heroes away from the Thundertusk at all costs. Use line of sight to your advantage by hiding behind terrain and your own units.
Click to expand...

Not so easy to do.
Beastclasw will often gain the first turn, due to the few models they can field. At that point, they also have the bonus move of the destruction armies, so they are going to target something at full strenght.

...and we can consider ourselves lucky for the fact that we don't have cannons with crew, because the vultures have really fun.
 
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