7th Ed. New strats for the percentage based hero/lord change.

[Skrox]

Has anyone really put together a cheesy list with the understanding that you may now put a bunch of lords/characters into an army if you didn't load them up on magic items? Assuming a 25% lord 25% hero cap.

If you didn't give them much equipment you could field 3 Oldblood in a 2k point army, with 5 scar-vets.
Or 7 skink priests, or 9 skink chiefs?

In a 2250 game you could be looking at a pair of Slann. Most people assume this change would result in fewer characters and more regular troopers, but it could just as easily lead to Vanilla Lord/Hero spamming.

 

[Nakai]

i imagine they will still have the lord level hero level character caps.

 

[strewart]

No, the caps are going so it is just % based.

I will be very interesting to see what is worth more; equipment or extra characters. Certainly adding a combat character with just mundane equipment to every unit may well become popular. I could definitely see dual Slanns being very handy. But just remember, there is now 25% minimum core as well, so if you buy 50% characters you are restricting yourself to just 25% special and rare combined, which is not very much. I think I would probably prefer to stick to character light most of the time.

Might be interesting in 2k to see a tooled up Slann and 5 level 2 skink priests though. That is a LOT of magic to throw around especially since dice can again be shared between characters and not restricted to he who generated them. Just need to watch the 12 power dice cap I guess.

 

[Walgis]

im thinking about dual slann with light and life lores. that is you can revive d3+1/d6+2 saurus and can make them ASF or I10 WS10 super cool zombie lizards

the choise will be for one slann equiped with lore of life for healing, and dual slanns with life and light. going to play lots of games to watch witch is better.

 

[hellbreaker]

I'm still going to run my Sunblade Carnosaur and ASF Cold one scar-vet, there's nothing changing that. They're just that cool.

Cheers!

 

[Kurlin]

Might be interesting in 2k to see a tooled up Slann and 5 level 2 skink priests though. That is a LOT of magic to throw around especially since dice can again be shared between characters and not restricted to he who generated them. Just need to watch the 12 power dice cap I guess.

With the cap on 12 PD, and the rolling for PD I don't really see that being viable. I mean what if you roll and only get 2 PD, that would be a waste of your 5 priests, as they would be just sitting there doing nothing. I really don't see any more than 3 wizards tops, being viable(without seeing items that help generate PD), as on average you will only get 7 PD(not counting channelling etc....). Plus with all the big spells in each lore i'm seeing, I would want the slann to use the majority of the dice even with rumination. Spells are not looking all that cheap to pull off.

Having a ton of combat characters I can definitely see happening though.

 

[Walgis]

Might be interesting in 2k to see a tooled up Slann and 5 level 2 skink priests though. That is a LOT of magic to throw around especially since dice can again be shared between characters and not restricted to he who generated them. Just need to watch the 12 power dice cap I guess.

With the cap on 12 PD, and the rolling for PD I don't really see that being viable. I mean what if you roll and only get 2 PD, that would be a waste of your 5 priests, as they would be just sitting there doing nothing. I really don't see any more than 3 wizards tops, being viable(without seeing items that help generate PD), as on average you will only get 7 PD(not counting channelling etc....). Plus with all the big spells in each lore i'm seeing, I would want the slann to use the majority of the dice even with rumination. Spells are not looking all that cheap to pull off.

Having a ton of combat characters I can definitely see happening though.

slann uses 5-6 dice for good spell. so i will be taking 2 slanns or slann and 1-2 priests with bunch of scar vets

 

[Caneghem]

I don't think it is worth going for dual slann at 2250. You come out with 12 points left for upgrades, not even enough to make one of them a BSB. No extra disciplines or cupped hands. Without any "lost control" protection (formerly miscast), you won't want to run them in TG units, because most of the lost control results involve everything around the caster taking a strength 10 hit. You will be your own Temple Guard's worst enemy. Running them solo is equally suicidal, as you won't have the points to make them ethereal or give them the 2+ ward or anything.

The only thing the extra slann adds is the ability to take 4 random spells from a different lore. I'd much rather have one reliable slann, with focus of mystery so I can really count on him getting the spells I need.

In general, there will be a diminishing returns for spamming wizards, as each of them only has a 1/6 chance per turn of generating an extra casting die. If you wanted to forgo the Slann and still have a robust magic phase, you could take 3 level 2 priests and give one the plaque of tepok. This will guarantee that you can get all 7 spells in the heavens deck (which is very impressive if the rumors hold true).

I think the most efficient thing, however, will be to have a Slann with a full lore and rumination, and just make him your only caster. You may want to have a flying priest to be your magic missile line of sight finder. I'd keep him level 1, and just take Uranon's Thunderbolt. That spell will absolutely destroy any flying unit or creature, and it is the BASIC spell. D6 str 6 hits, and if you inflict a wound on your target, they take an additional D6 str 4 hits. Awesome. I plan on taking Heavens on the Slann and just making the battlefield a no fly zone!

 

[Kurlin]

I don't think it is worth going for dual slann at 2250. You come out with 12 points left for upgrades, not even enough to make one of them a BSB. No extra disciplines or cupped hands. Without any "lost control" protection (formerly miscast), you won't want to run them in TG units, because most of the lost control results involve everything around the caster taking a strength 10 hit. You will be your own Temple Guard's worst enemy. Running them solo is equally suicidal, as you won't have the points to make them ethereal or give them the 2+ ward or anything.

The only thing the extra slann adds is the ability to take 4 random spells from a different lore. I'd much rather have one reliable slann, with focus of mystery so I can really count on him getting the spells I need.

In general, there will be a diminishing returns for spamming wizards, as each of them only has a 1/6 chance per turn of generating an extra casting die. If you wanted to forgo the Slann and still have a robust magic phase, you could take 3 level 2 priests and give one the plaque of tepok. This will guarantee that you can get all 7 spells in the heavens deck (which is very impressive if the rumors hold true).

I think the most efficient thing, however, will be to have a Slann with a full lore and rumination, and just make him your only caster. You may want to have a flying priest to be your magic missile line of sight finder. I'd keep him level 1, and just take Uranon's Thunderbolt. That spell will absolutely destroy any flying unit or creature, and it is the BASIC spell. D6 str 6 hits, and if you inflict a wound on your target, they take an additional D6 str 4 hits. Awesome. I plan on taking Heavens on the Slann and just making the battlefield a no fly zone!

Well if they make 3000 the new tourney standard, then dual Slann might work. But you and me are on the same page with a slann and a priest with cloak. And thunderbolt being the basic spell is awesome.

I am actually excited by each lore, and can't wait to try them all out. And come on, a level 3 fireball is awesome, 3D6 S6 hits with a 48" range, AND its a MM so you can channel it through your priest so you effectively have a 68" range if your priest has cloak. Talk about some devastating magic phases.

 

[Caneghem]

Well if they make 3000 the new tourney standard, then dual Slann might work. But you and me are on the same page with a slann and a priest with cloak. And thunderbolt being the basic spell is awesome.

I am actually excited by each lore, and can't wait to try them all out. And come on, a level 3 fireball is awesome, 3D6 S6 hits with a 48" range, AND its a MM so you can channel it through your priest so you effectively have a 68" range if your priest has cloak. Talk about some devastating magic phases.

I'm pretty psyched about getting to look through all the lores in the new ed as well, and have started to size up what the lores seem to be good for at this point.

The Lore of Death has 3 different character sniping spells... something to consider if people decide to start character spamming. Barjuna's Fate in particular is incredibly nasty, and the Slann would be able to bully people with the basic spell. I don't think I'd be casting the big spell in that lore though, because of it's potential to remain bouncing around the table and the relatively low initiative of Lizardmen troops. Might be worth it against dwarves to wipe out big blocks at a time, but saurus are so vulnerable to init tests. Soulrot would be a good opening spell for the phase, using it on a unit you are about to character snipe.

Beasts probably won't be useful for the Slann, it seems like it mostly boosts the caster or turns him into a dragon. +1 strength and toughness would be fun to cast on an ancient steg with chief and warspear. 2d6+1 strength 7 impact hits, plus some strength 7 normal attacks, PLUS another D6 "crush them" hits. Oh yeah, and the steg is T7!

 

[Kurlin]

[

Yeah I looked at death, and liked it at first, but there's no block infantry killers, so if they don't char spam or big blocks it could suck. But also think of this, for example if your playing skaven, nominate the doomwheel, screaming belll, HPA, and you can take out his big stuff fairly quickly as all of it auto wounds with no armor save(they coud easily have 2 doomwheels and a HPA with the % for rares, even more at 3000). And yes that big power whirl with I test scares the F outta me with our initiative.

With beasts theres only 4 of 7 spells up(on warseer atleast) and you do have 1 magic missile, so it is currently missing a hex, direct damage, and another spell(guessing from other lores) so I have hope that there could be some other goodies there that would make it better for a slann.

And the metal spell that turns units to gold could be devastating to big blocks of infantry. And swapping characters T with AS could be awesome as well before your units attack them.

And life is good at making sure your units get into combat at as full strength as possible, will be great against gunlines with forcing the auto-hit or auto-wounds actaully have to roll instead of being auto.

The only bad side I see is in a tourney your gonna have to stick with one throughout the entire tourney. As it is rumored that your lore has to be on your army list before hand, and you can't choose it after seeing their army.

 

[Caneghem]

Yeah I looked at death, and liked it at first, but there's no block infantry killers, so if they don't char spam or big blocks it could suck. But also think of this, for example if your playing skaven, nominate the doomwheel, screaming belll, HPA, and you can take out his big stuff fairly quickly as all of it auto wounds with no armor save(they coud easily have 2 doomwheels and a HPA with the % for rares, even more at 3000). And yes that big power whirl with I test scares the F outta me with our initiative.

With beasts theres only 4 of 7 spells up(on warseer atleast) and you do have 1 magic missile, so it is currently missing a hex, direct damage, and another spell(guessing from other lores) so I have hope that there could be some other goodies there that would make it better for a slann.

And the metal spell that turns units to gold could be devastating to big blocks of infantry. And swapping characters T with AS could be awesome as well before your units attack them.

And life is good at making sure your units get into combat at as full strength as possible, will be great against gunlines with forcing the auto-hit or auto-wounds actaully have to roll instead of being auto.

The only bad side I see is in a tourney your gonna have to stick with one throughout the entire tourney. As it is rumored that your lore has to be on your army list before hand, and you can't choose it after seeing their army.

The swapping of T and Armor save makes chaos knights T1 with 4+ armor. They probably wouldn't be as cocky about charging with that spell on them. Not to mention blowpipes would make them evaporate. I wonder if the 5+ scaly skin will be able to stack on top of our natural 5+ for saurus... though you could always cast it at your skink blocks. The turning things to gold spell is interesting, but I'll have to see exactly how it works. At the moment it looks like it could be another gateway type spell. It might be the spell that scares people out of creating the uber deathstar units, only time will tell.

The good news about being forced to stick to one lore is everybody else will too... people won't see a lizardmen list and say, "oh, time for that initiative spell that will wipe them out!" The key is picking a lore that is going to be useful in most situations and compensates for your own army's weaknesses. The Focus of Mystery will be even more valuable now... we won't have to worry about getting the wrong spells from a lore to deal with the current opponent. So far Heavens seems good, but it does lack a spell that can cause massive damage to a giant unit. I'm interested in what will come of the Shadow Lore, I'm hoping it will keep the theme of having lots of movement spells.

 

[Kurlin]

Yeah I looked at death, and liked it at first, but there's no block infantry killers, so if they don't char spam or big blocks it could suck. But also think of this, for example if your playing skaven, nominate the doomwheel, screaming belll, HPA, and you can take out his big stuff fairly quickly as all of it auto wounds with no armor save(they coud easily have 2 doomwheels and a HPA with the % for rares, even more at 3000). And yes that big power whirl with I test scares the F outta me with our initiative.

With beasts theres only 4 of 7 spells up(on warseer atleast) and you do have 1 magic missile, so it is currently missing a hex, direct damage, and another spell(guessing from other lores) so I have hope that there could be some other goodies there that would make it better for a slann.

And the metal spell that turns units to gold could be devastating to big blocks of infantry. And swapping characters T with AS could be awesome as well before your units attack them.

And life is good at making sure your units get into combat at as full strength as possible, will be great against gunlines with forcing the auto-hit or auto-wounds actaully have to roll instead of being auto.

The only bad side I see is in a tourney your gonna have to stick with one throughout the entire tourney. As it is rumored that your lore has to be on your army list before hand, and you can't choose it after seeing their army.

The swapping of T and Armor save makes chaos knights T1 with 4+ armor. They probably wouldn't be as cocky about charging with that spell on them. Not to mention blowpipes would make them evaporate. I wonder if the 5+ scaly skin will be able to stack on top of our natural 5+ for saurus... though you could always cast it at your skink blocks. The turning things to gold spell is interesting, but I'll have to see exactly how it works. At the moment it looks like it could be another gateway type spell. It might be the spell that scares people out of creating the uber deathstar units, only time will tell.

The good news about being forced to stick to one lore is everybody else will too... people won't see a lizardmen list and say, "oh, time for that initiative spell that will wipe them out!" The key is picking a lore that is going to be useful in most situations and compensates for your own army's weaknesses. The Focus of Mystery will be even more valuable now... we won't have to worry about getting the wrong spells from a lore to deal with the current opponent. So far Heavens seems good, but it does lack a spell that can cause massive damage to a giant unit. I'm interested in what will come of the Shadow Lore, I'm hoping it will keep the theme of having lots of movement spells.

Shadow should, the only 2 listed so far are character swaps(the special and the basic).

 

[Walgis]

other lores loo great, but if rumors are true and life 6th spell has something anti lost controll i have to go with life. +4T and healing your troops is amazing!! just look at T8 saurus
2250 dual slann doesnt work. but in 2500 you have 75 pt left so you can boost one slann. but still 3000 pt game is the best for 2 slanns. in 2500 going to try and make work the WOW combination (mentioned in 8ed items section).

 

[hellbreaker]

The swapping of T and Armor ... your skink blocks.

T6 2+ save skinks? I think we have a winner here! If this spell is real I just might get a slann.
If shields still confer +1 AS saurus would remain unaffected by the spell, being T4 4+.

Cheers!

 

[kroxigor01]

I thought the rumor was that 2500 would be the new standard. I was thinking:

Slann - The Focused Rumination, Focus of Mystery (lore?)
325

Slann - The Focused Rumination, Plaque of Tepok (lore?)
290

Scar Vet - BSB, Cold One, Spear, Shield, Light armour
142

Temple Guard - 20, FC
355

Temple Guard - 20, FC
355

Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Skink Skirmishers - 10
Terradons - 4
Terradons - 4
Salamander Hunting Pack - 1, extra handler
Salamander Hunting Pack - 1, extra handler

I think I disagree about the risk of miscasts. Spells generally do more damage, and we will be casting less of them, so you have fewer chances to miscast.

 

[Walgis]

i think for double slanns they have to go alone. becouse the miscast are awfull. i would take atleast one unit of saurus warriors, a big one. lots of plane skinks for protecting slann from somebody ataking them.
IMHO slann in TG unit will be too much risk. you can blow up everything.
oh and defenetly atleast one unit of 3 salamandra or 2x2 salamandra, theyre becoming killer now.

 

[Wolf]

I think I disagree about the risk of miscasts. Spells generally do more damage, and we will be casting less of them, so you have fewer chances to miscast.

I don't think we'll be casting less spells actually. Seeing as a Slann gets +4 to cast, a Slann with the Focused Rumination will be rolling in at 11 (!!) on 1 die (average on 2 (1 power die and extra one) is 7 to which you then add 4) and not all the spells will be harder to cast. The Lore of Death uber spell will only be 15+. On average a 2 die spell. Which means you could be casting 3 of these babies (in theory) a turn!! Assuming you get 7 on the 2D6 roll for Power Dice.

Wow

 

[Walgis]

firstly i would like to see all the casting values of every spell in rumors sektion there were spell with 24+ to cast, thats way harder than 15+

 

[Caneghem]

The swapping of T and Armor ... your skink blocks.

T6 2+ save skinks? I think we have a winner here! If this spell is real I just might get a slann.
If shields still confer +1 AS saurus would remain unaffected by the spell, being T4 4+.

Cheers!

Hopefully that spell can be cast at friendly units! Would be insane if it actually works. Skink blocks just turn into juggernauts of destruction.

I was looking over the new spells from Lore of Shadow.. no movement spell apart from Steed of Shadows, which now won't allow for charging. I guess they had to do that to prevent people firing off one cheap hero per magic phase. It now has become a very hex and boost heavy lore. Now pit of shades is a bit more random, and there is yet another initiative test spell that is a bit like Skaven's Cracks Call. But of very special interest are the spells that reduce a target unit's Toughness or Strength by D3... The current basic rulebook says that if strength or toughness is ever reduced to 0 the model is removed from play... So for either of these spells just roll a 5+ and destroy a whole unit of humans, elves, some daemons, etc? I'm sure they will say something like "to a minimum of 1" for strength and toughness. The basic spell is very versatile, letting you reduce the enemy's WS, BS, I, or M by D3. There will be a reason to cast that every turn. The other cool spell is the big spell, which allows an entire unit to use its base leadership as its strength! Strength 6 skink javelins and strength 8 saurus anyone? Jungle swarms attacking at strength 10?!