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AoS NEW *rumor*

Killer Angel said:
How the incarnate works
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well turning All out Attack in an AoE-effect is interesting, as is the -1/+1 to cast.
And I like that it can go rampant.

But the fact it's a 400 point model is considerably less interesting. This basicly means having multiple incarnates is impossible (which is also a shame for when we get other incarnates eventually)

The damage output seems a tad superfluous, would've prefered if these had focused on utility and it's direct damage was limited.
 
Canas said:
well turning All out Attack in an AoE-effect is interesting, as is the -1/+1 to cast.
And I like that it can go rampant.

But the fact it's a 400 point model is considerably less interesting. This basicly means having multiple incarnates is impossible (which is also a shame for when we get other incarnates eventually)

The damage output seems a tad superfluous, would've prefered if these had focused on utility and it's direct damage was limited.
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On a first impression i don’t dislike such a high points cost. It will severely limit broken combo with strong casters.

I like the damage option. It is the embodyment of a Realm, it is a very powerful thing, it hurts.

...but what if both me and my opponent include it in the list?
 
Killer Angel said:
On a first impression i don’t dislike such a high points cost. It will severely limit broken combo with strong casters.
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I'd rather have a cheaper version.

2 wizards with a cheap, and relativly weak, incarnate seems easier to balance than 1 wizard with some super expensive and powerful.

Plus, if incarnates are relativly cheap you could have some interesting interactions. Be it with synergetic incarnates or competing incarnates.

Also, the way all of the posts surrounding it have been written it sounds like you should be able to field multiple, similar to how you can field multiple endless spells. So finding out they're 400 point models, and not 50 point models, is kind of dissapointing.

Then again, endless spells have also become rather dissapointing, especially after Morathi broke ruined things for the rest of us. So not sure why I was expecting that :p

Killer Angel said:
I like the damage option. It is the embodyment of a Realm, it is a very powerful thing, it hurts.
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Sure, but like 99% of AoS mechanics are damage-focused already. It's not like there is anyone left who truly lacks damage-ouput as a faction, and utility would simply be more novel than yet another model that does tons of damage.

And it's not like it being utility focused would mean it'd have to be weak.

Killer Angel said:
...but what if both me and my opponent include it in the list?
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What about it? It's not like mirror-matches were ever an issue in AoS for anything that's unique before this.
 
Seems like a really weird addition all around. Now, the whole "it can do 34 wounds!" thing is probably assuming max damage, meaning it would have to hit every attack and wound roll, and your opponent would have to fail every save. They also didn't mention mortal wounds, so I'm assuming it has to make attack rolls. But still, another insanely damaging big model is going to be difficult to balance, if you ask me.

It also seems like you can't really kill it easily. We don't know exactly how it's "state" rule works yet, but I'm guessing if it takes damage it has to make the bravery test, and if it fails it goes down a "state." So at the minimum, assuming you can't kill it through outright damage, you're looking at two turns before you can kill it. Also, it's yet another big monster that will probably kill whatever it touches, which AoS already has too many of in my opinion.

The caster buff is nice, I'm curious if it debuffs all enemy wizards boardwide or just within a certain range... If so, you may see it a lot just because it seems to hard-counter casting armies. Sounds like it will more or less discourage endless spells completely, which is a shame. They were a unique and interesting feature of AoS, even though some armies that should have gotten them never did. But GW seems to be actively discouraging the use of Endless Spells now. And if you're going to see lots of these things bouncing around the tables people aren't going to bring endless spells that will probably just end up feeding your opponent's Incarnate.

It sounds like it wants to play safely for at least a while, buffing all nearby units with all-out attack for only 1 CP, and staying within the dominating range. If you send it out too far and it goes down a stage, I'm guessing you can lose control of it and then you have an annoyance for both players.

It could be pretty cool once we see it's full ruleset. But currently I'm thinking it's A: needlessly complicated and B: potentially extremely annoying if it's abilities end up being worth the high point cost. The only plus side I can see is that some armies that are really struggling to deal with some of the current OP units might like having it just to give them something that can shred whatever it wants.
 
Kilvakar said:
It could be pretty cool once we see it's full ruleset. But currently I'm thinking it's A: needlessly complicated and B: potentially extremely annoying if it's abilities end up being worth the high point cost. The only plus side I can see is that some armies that are really struggling to deal with some of the current OP units might like having it just to give them something that can shred whatever it wants.
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do remember it can only be used in ghur and we won't be fighing in ghur for much longer
 
Erta Wanderer said:
do remember it can only be used in ghur and we won't be fighing in ghur for much longer
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This is why the Seasons of War idea is so weird. I know originally it sounded like each GHB would be a new set of realm rules, but now with an actual Season of War book I'm wondering if the realm rules will be separate from the base rules and you can essentially pick which ones you want to use. I know the GW can be extremely predatory with their business practices, but I also don't see how they would release a new (and presumably expensive) terrain set and powerful new model only to ban it from games next year.

My guess is that either you'll be allowed to use the Incarnates in any realm, maybe by reintroducing the idea of your army being from a specific realm rather than just the one the most recent Season is set in, or the Season books will be treated more as optional rules rather than core rules you must use...
 
Kilvakar said:
This is why the Seasons of War idea is so weird. I know originally it sounded like each GHB would be a new set of realm rules, but now with an actual Season of War book I'm wondering if the realm rules will be separate from the base rules and you can essentially pick which ones you want to use. I know the GW can be extremely predatory with their business practices, but I also don't see how they would release a new (and presumably expensive) terrain set and powerful new model only to ban it from games next year.

My guess is that either you'll be allowed to use the Incarnates in any realm, maybe by reintroducing the idea of your army being from a specific realm rather than just the one the most recent Season is set in, or the Season books will be treated more as optional rules rather than core rules you must use...
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One rumour is that the next GHb will stay in Ghur but move to a different region - no idea if this holds water . I do think that Incarnates may be a way to "encourage" people to pick a realm for an army like you say though.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
do remember it can only be used in ghur and we won't be fighing in ghur for much longer
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That seems unlikely. Releasing entire models that cost an arm and a leg only to immeadiatly ban them is a stupid decision even by GW standards....

Kilvakar said:
Sounds like it will more or less discourage endless spells completely, which is a shame. They were a unique and interesting feature of AoS, even though some armies that should have gotten them never did. But GW seems to be actively discouraging the use of Endless Spells now. And if you're going to see lots of these things bouncing around the tables people aren't going to bring endless spells that will probably just end up feeding your opponent's Incarnate.
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Yeah, this is also something that's a bit weird about this model. Endless spells are already a massivly underutilized mechanic, given another downside to them doesn't seem like a good plan..

Maybe they didn't like how they panned out and are simply trying to discontinue endless spells over time? When were the last endless spells released?
Though if this is the case I'd prefer if they'd just come out and tell us that they don't like them and are slowly phasing them out.
 
"Instead of suffering Wounds, an Incarnate makes a special Battleshock test using 3d6, losing a State if they feel. Each state has If an Incarnate drops to 0, it is slain and removed from the battlefield. While it is Wild, it is treated as a hostile model by both armies. Several Grand Strategies in Thondia rely on having a non-Wild Incarnate on the battlefield, so you’ll want to keep it safe."

So if you have an ability that says you ignore battleshock do they not lose states? Also if taking one opens up grand strategies, is it gonna be like Ghur where you will lose games because you didnt bring a monster? so many questions.
 
Canas said:
That seems unlikely. Releasing entire models that cost an arm and a leg only to immeadiatly ban them is a stupid decision even by GW standards....
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as unlikely as it sounds that is how it works. it can only be used in ghur and we are about to leave ghur competitively. so it's only going to be used in kitchen table games or games using the old battle pack
 
Jason839 said:
"Instead of suffering Wounds, an Incarnate makes a special Battleshock test using 3d6, losing a State if they feel. Each state has If an Incarnate drops to 0, it is slain and removed from the battlefield. While it is Wild, it is treated as a hostile model by both armies. Several Grand Strategies in Thondia rely on having a non-Wild Incarnate on the battlefield, so you’ll want to keep it safe."

So if you have an ability that says you ignore battleshock do they not lose states? Also if taking one opens up grand strategies, is it gonna be like Ghur where you will lose games because you didnt bring a monster? so many questions.
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I'm guessing they just used the battleshock as a quick comparison to explain more or less how it works. If it could be made immortal that'd be hilariously stupid.


Erta Wanderer said:
as unlikely as it sounds that is how it works. it can only be used in ghur and we are about to leave ghur competitively. so it's only going to be used in kitchen table games or games using the old battle pack
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Have they ever released anything that's intended purely for non-competitive stuff? Outside of the occasional promotional model for collectors (and even those generally still have rules and can be used).

Cuz unless they plan to change seasons in 2023 at the earliest this would basically be a purely non-competitive model. Which I don't think they've ever really done.
 
Jason839 said:
"Instead of suffering Wounds, an Incarnate makes a special Battleshock test using 3d6, losing a State if they feel. Each state has If an Incarnate drops to 0, it is slain and removed from the battlefield. While it is Wild, it is treated as a hostile model by both armies. Several Grand Strategies in Thondia rely on having a non-Wild Incarnate on the battlefield, so you’ll want to keep it safe."

So if you have an ability that says you ignore battleshock do they not lose states? Also if taking one opens up grand strategies, is it gonna be like Ghur where you will lose games because you didnt bring a monster? so many questions.
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Nah, they're talking about battleshock but it won't be a real battleshock so it cannot be bypassed. a mechanic similar to Lord Kroak, i imagine.
 
To be honest i'm mostly curious how they want to fit them into the existing game. What niche isn't yet covered by other factions?

Lore-wise I think it might be interesting, especially if they continue with the temporary aliances thing. Slightly less grimderp everyone is perpetually at war with everyone cuz reasons no matter how detrimental it may be, and a bit more sensible diplomacy would be good.
 
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