AoS NEW *rumor*

[Carnikang]

It just seems way too easy to get to 10d3+ a turn with 2 Slanns if you can sacrifice every spell cast. Fill in the rest with mass Skinks + buffs in FoS where they can just tie up things piss off on a 4+ while actually killing stuff.

Pulling in a Bastiladons worth of models each turn seems a wee bit nutty to me.

Two Slann is 6D3 (580pts), 7D3 if one is a general. Add in an Oracle (840pts) for 8D3.

How are you getting 10D3 from two Slann?
Edit- This is assuming each spell is a D3 when sacrificed.

 

[Canas]

Two Slann is 6D3 (580pts), 7D3 if one is a general. Add in an Oracle (840pts) for 8D3.

How are you getting 10D3 from two Slann?
Edit- This is assuming each spell is a D3 when sacrificed.

Imho, this is the biggest issue, even if you can sacrifice every spell it's still a massive investment, with very obvious weaknesses for the enemy for focus on. In between the RNG, the initial investment & the obvious counters it seems like it'd be reasonable balanced.

 

[Carnikang]

Imho, this is the biggest issue, even if you can sacrifice every spell it's still a massive investment, with very obvious weaknesses for the enemy for focus on. In between the RNG, the initial investment & the obvious counters it seems like it'd be reasonable balanced.

I agree. Dropping the points on the Oracle (hopefully something GW considers) and slotting Kroak + a subordinate Slann to be the general could be a nice starter for anyone making a Starborne force looking to summon things. 9D3 for just a few more points than two regular Slann. You can also switch it up and just cast with Kroak if you need to. Toss in an Astrolith to increase casting values and get you that sweet 10D3. For close to 1000 points.

 

[Grotpunter]

Two Slann is 6D3 (580pts), 7D3 if one is a general. Add in an Oracle (840pts) for 8D3.

How are you getting 10D3 from two Slann?
Edit- This is assuming each spell is a D3 when sacrificed.

I was just talking in general. Its not that difficult to get around 10D3 between Kroak + Slann + Cogs/Balewind + Astrolith etc. if its true you can sacrifice more than 1 spell each. 260 for the Oracle is a horrible investment if all you want is CCP.

Fill in the rest with Skinks (around 100? 150?) in Fangs of Sotek. Doesn’t even seem that memey or bad. You would have plently of bodies, plently of CPs to spam FoS CA each turn and you keep generating stuff.

 

[PJetski]

View attachment 67970

"you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration".

You can't use an ability multiple times unless the ability says otherwise, and this ability doesn't say you can do this multiple times.

The number of spells on the wizards warscroll are irrelevant... you can only generate D3 CCP with each SLANN or Oracle, and if you choose to do so then you cast one less spell in that phase.

 

[Aginor]

"you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration".

You can't use an ability multiple times unless the ability says otherwise, and this ability doesn't say you can do this multiple times.

The number of spells on the wizards warscroll are irrelevant... you can only generate D3 CCP with each SLANN or Oracle, and if you choose to do so then you cast one less spell in that phase.

Yeah pretty sure that is intended. (Even though I don't like it).
Otherwise they would open a whole can of worms with other abilities.

On earlier warscrolls they always had a "once per hero phase ... " part in the descriptions for abilities, I think that's where the confusion comes from.

And of course from the fact that it is exactly the reverse of how it was before. And the old rules in the GHB (at least the German one, I don't remember the exact English wording) did not explicitly say that you can do it more than once either.

 

[Carnikang]

"you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration".

You can't use an ability multiple times unless the ability says otherwise, and this ability doesn't say you can do this multiple times.

Where does it state this? As far as I know, most abilities would have limits baked in stating only the limitations, such as "You may only do this once per phase per Slann/Oracle", which it does not. Only that you must do it before your first spell cast, and it decreases the number of spells you may cast by 1.
As it stands, it can be interpreted two wildly different ways. It needs to be cleared up.

 

[PJetski]

Where does it state this? As far as I know, most abilities would have limits baked in stating only the limitations, such as "You may only do this once per phase per Slann/Oracle", which it does not. Only that you must do it before your first spell cast, and it decreases the number of spells you may cast by 1.
As it stands, it can be interpreted two wildly different ways. It needs to be cleared up.

By your logic the Troglodon can fully heal itself every hero phase, because there's no explicitly stated limit on the number of times it can use Regeneration so it can just keep using it.

 

[Carnikang]

By your logic the Troglodon can fully heal itself every hero phase, because there's no explicitly stated limit on the number of times it can use Regeneration so it can just keep using it.

It specifies that you may only roll 1 die for this model. A clear limitation.

In addition, the CCP generation is an Allegiance Ability not a Warscroll Ability, which is different.

 

[Aginor]

For abilities by models I tend to agree with @PJetski , like for example an Orruk Warchanter cannot repeat his "violent fury" ability just because it doesn't say he cannot do it more than once.

I still see your point, too. Allegiance abilities have weird wordings sometimes. To be absolutely sure we will probably need a FAQ. I still hope for multiple times but right now I'd bet 8 to 1 that it will be just once.

 

[Just A Skink]

For abilities by models I tend to agree with @PJetski , like for example an Orruk Warchanter cannot repeat his "violent fury" ability just because it doesn't say he cannot do it more than once.

I still see your point, too. Allegiance abilities have weird wordings sometimes. To be absolutely sure we will probably need a FAQ. I still hope for multiple times but right now I'd bet 8 to 1 that it will be just once.

I feel that just one celestial conjuration per model is what's intended too, but we'll see. I think that summoning and teleporting made our army unique in original AoS. Of course, gradually LOTS of other armies got summon and teleport abilities. That said, I totally understand why they would limit the mechanic, because it can, and probably does, get out of hand ("Hello Bloodthirster." "Another Keeper of Secrets? Why not?")

If it does get FAQ'd to just once per caster, I don't know if it will render the mechanic useless (having not actually played enough to evaluate), but it does reinforce my feeling that the Starborne are missing that "one more thing" to make them more competitive/interesting. They do get 10 Bravery, one teleport and some summoning. I don't know, maybe I'm not thinking of Starborne with all of the extra abilities from constellations and starhosts, because my game group rarely uses all of that; we tend to play smaller, more basic, games with less "extras" (although I would like to).

 

[PJetski]

It specifies that you may only roll 1 die for this model. A clear limitation.

In addition, the CCP generation is an Allegiance Ability not a Warscroll Ability, which is different.

It says "In your hero phase, you can roll a dice for this model." This has the same wording as "you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration". It doesn't state you can't use it more than once, so by your logic I can use it repeatedly.

Heck, by your logic we can do infinite conjurations. The spells I use are reduced by 1, but there's nothing saying we can't go below zero spells!

 

[Carnikang]

It says "In your hero phase, you can roll a dice for this model." This has the same wording as "you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration". It doesn't state you can't use it more than once, so by your logic I can use it repeatedly.

Heck, by your logic we can do infinite conjurations. The spells I use are reduced by 1, but there's nothing saying we can't go below zero spells!

Clearly.

 

[Canas]

For abilities by models I tend to agree with @PJetski , like for example an Orruk Warchanter cannot repeat his "violent fury" ability just because it doesn't say he cannot do it more than once.

I still see your point, too. Allegiance abilities have weird wordings sometimes. To be absolutely sure we will probably need a FAQ. I still hope for multiple times but right now I'd bet 8 to 1 that it will be just once.

The warchanter has an explicit limit though. It can pick 1 unit. Using it multiple times would break that limit. Admittadly this is a bit of semantics. But at least it has an explicit limit in some form.

Celestial conjuration however doesn't state any explicit limits. It just states consequences and one prerequisite. On top of that it interacts with the limits on a different ability (namely spellcasts). Hence it'd make sense to assume it operates under the same limits as that other ability. And this is imho the main issue. If it doesn't follow the same limits as spellcasting it needs to have its own explicit limits.

It says "In your hero phase, you can roll a dice for this model." This has the same wording as "you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration". It doesn't state you can't use it more than once, so by your logic I can use it repeatedly.

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Heck, by your logic we can do infinite conjurations. The spells I use are reduced by 1, but there's nothing saying we can't go below zero spells!

Yup, RAW an argument could be made you can go below 0 spellcasts. I mean, it'd be stupid and is clearly not intended. But RAW it does work.

 

[Carnikang]

Additionally @PJetski, I can't find anything in the core rules that limits ability use on a Warscroll to once per that phase.

Odd, though it's probably in an FAQ.

On top of that, the Unique Abilities section of the Allegiance portion of the Core Rules also state that the Allegiance ability will explain the ability in full Or "how and when they are used".

Let's use an example of a book have on hand for abilities that address single use or limited use abilities. Battletome Skaven.
Pestilens - Echoes of the Great Plague: Calls out that each Great Plague can only manifest once, and only one may be active a turn.
Skyre - Warpstone Sparks: this one is actually superficially similar to the CCP in that for each Skyre Hero, you get D3+3 Warpstone Sparks to use throughout the battle. It even states you may only use one per phase.

They clearly defined the limitations of the Allegiance ability. Ours is not. Regardless of what side of the debate you are on, it is poorly worded and does not define it's limitations.

 

[Captaniser]

Just a heads up that warhammer fest has also been cancelled. The previews that were meant to be showcased there will now be showcased on the warhammer community site.
https://www.warhammer-community.com...ancelledfw-homepage-post-1gw-homepage-post-1/

 

[Shocksem]

Where does it state this? As far as I know, most abilities would have limits baked in stating only the limitations, such as "You may only do this once per phase per Slann/Oracle", which it does not. Only that you must do it before your first spell cast, and it decreases the number of spells you may cast by 1.
As it stands, it can be interpreted two wildly different ways. It needs to be cleared up.

This is some pretty over the top interpretation of that rule. Can we go back to arguing about 1+ saves instead.

 

[Grotpunter]

Has anyone compared the text for the summoning to what was written in GHB2019?

 

[Asamu]

Has anyone compared the text for the summoning to what was written in GHB2019?

Old wording: " before attempting to cast a spell with a SLANN general, you can say that it will carry out celestial conjuration instead. If you do so, you receive 3 celestial conjuration points instead of being able to attempt to cast that spell."

New wording: "before attempting to cast the first spell with each friendly SLANN or ORACLE, you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration. If you do so, you receive D3 celestial conjuration points but the number of spells which that model can attempt to cast in that phase is reduced by 1."

I think the new wording is pretty clearly intended to only work once per hero phase.

 

[Canas]

It isn't, it's basicly the same wording however with the caveat that now you need to do it before casting any other spells, so you can no longer use your slann to do the following:

- cast comet call
- See if your target survives
- Cast 2nd spell
- Target dead
- Generate CCP with the remaining spell

Instead you have to go:

- I use 1 spell to generate CCP

- cast comet call
- See if your target survives
- Cast 2nd spell
- Target dead

That's the only significant change compared to the old wording, and with the old wording we could sacrifice multiple spells.

Anways, I want a F.A.Q. already. This is getting annoying​