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AoS NEW *rumor*

LizardWizard said:
Spaming won't make a difference. It is D3 if you have any Astrothliths and D3 if you have either a Slann or Oracle. You can't stack them up. You will likely be always giving up 1 spell for 3 CCP. So you should average 7 CCP per turn. Which means you should in most games should have Generated 35 CCP by the end of your 5th turn.
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I'm not sure if the slann/oracle line is D3 for having any slann/oracle or D3 per slann/oracle.

Also, the spell sacrifice seemed to be D3 as well if I read it correctly.

as for the average of 7 and the 35 at turn 5:

1) 35 at turn 5 is far too slow to summon any of our big stuff at a point that's usefull. So I'd hope you can generate more than that at a reliable rate. Otherwise the top half of the table is basicly pointless.
2) It's great that the average is 7, but it still has a rand from like 4 till 12 or something. Which is far too great a range. Yeah, it'l average out over multiple games, but it shouldn't be exceptional to get a game where you get 4 twice, severly hampering your summoning.
3) This particular variant is even more dependent on your stuff actually being alive, which is good. But it does mean that a bad CCP during turn 1-2 is even more devestating as you might lose generation in turn 3, making it reasonably likely your summoning can get completly shut down based on luck & a little bit of clever play from your opponent.
4) If you do get lucky and generate 12 CCP/turn it'l immeadiatly get super oppresive as it's the same high CCP we have now, but with better units popping up...

Overall, if this is all we get for summoning it'd be massivly dissapointing. Not cuz it's weak (I mean that's dissapointing too, but not the main issue :p), but because luck plays such a major factor in it you'l regularly have matches where it's either barely functional or quite oppresive.

Aginor said:
Something else being ridiculously broken doesn't mean ours isn't good.
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also, so much this. It needs more likes :p

Erta Wanderer said:
i should have a comparison between old and new combat stats in the next 2 days
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I'd wait till you get the entire book, most of the synergies are still missing and those might be crucial. We've already seen some decently impactfull faction abilities, so there could be interesting spells/artifacts/mount traits/general traits/whatever still laying around that heavily influence things.

karlsbc said:
Unfortunately giving up a spell just gives 1d3 CCP, not 3 as it's been until now.

The wording is clumsy and it's room to interpret that you can give av up the very first spell or the very first spell for each model. I guess they'll FAQ it.
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1 spell total as a cap would make it basicly impossible to summon the big stuff no matter what list you use. That'd be stupid. It'l literally make half the summoning list useless unless you consistently roll 3's on your D3's. I would assume they're not that bad at making rules..
 
I think we might need a few lazy afternoons to figure out how to make this book work, but I think we can do it.

That said, I would be lying if I said I wasn't disheartened by a lot of these warscrolls.

- No rend on Carno claws and bite got somehow worse
- Trog is much better but still far off from being worth his new pricetag
- Slann, Kroak and Trog all share a spell lore

Just a lot of decisions that are questionable to say the least. I will say that the Starseer's add 1 / reduce 1 from save rolls is a pretty interesting addition to the toolkit.
 
Canas said:
I'd wait till you get the entire book, most of the synergies are still missing and those might be crucial. We've already seen some decently impactfull faction abilities, so there could be interesting spells/artifacts/mount traits/general traits/whatever still laying around that heavily influence things.
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i never use buffes when comparing to many nubers the list gets to be 20 pages long.
i use them when comparing basses stats against buffed stats
 
Oh and I am torn about the comet spell being on there warscrolls.
On one hand it is good as it means that they all can use it any time (not in the same turn of course)
On the other hand it looks a but lazy. I like variety.
 
Aginor said:
Oh and I am torn about the comet spell being on there warscrolls.
On one hand it is good as it means that they all can use it any time (not in the same turn of course)
On the other hand it looks a but lazy. I like variety.
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lazy is the name of the game! suarus heros share a command ability slan and kroak do to. every one has the same spells! so much variety
 
Erta Wanderer said:
lazy is the name of the game! suarus heros share a command ability slan and kroak do to. every one has the same spells! so much variety
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I'd really like to see the scar vet command ability, as well as the sun blood.

We're going to be generating command points like they are going out of style, so hopefully theres some juicy stuff in there. *fingers crossed for fight twice*
 
Reminds me of the Tyranids Psychic Awakening book for 40k. Quarter-arsed BS because nobody couldn't be bothered.

Not sure I am buying that Seraphon have interested parties inside GW HQ. The "Painting & converting" post that went up today shows that too.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
i never use buffes when comparing to many nubers the list gets to be 20 pages long.
i use them when comparing basses stats against buffed stats
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I think in this particular case you're going to have to take into account some of them as we have a bunch that are fairly impactfull and have a fairly large effective "range". I mean so far we've already seen a +1 bite attack on everything and +2 wounds on every monster if you have the right subfaction. That's not something you can really ignore. Similarly the 12" ward-save bubble on a astrolith is going to be crucial to making our stuff withstand damage (and is surprisingly big for such an effect)

Aginor said:
Oh and I am torn about the comet spell being on there warscrolls.
On one hand it is good as it means that they all can use it any time (not in the same turn of course)
On the other hand it looks a but lazy. I like variety.
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imho, if there isn't something that allows multiple casts of that spell, gives some other advantage, or we get an absolute massive and amazing spell lore it's terrible. The rule of one is limiting & obnoxious enough as is when fielding multiple wizards of the same type, but now they're activly designing wizards that just can't be fielded together. That'd be just plain stupid...

Worst part about it though is that the spell itself is great, and allowing multiple casts would probably be freaking broken (or at least hailed as broken by the internet and any opponent). So it makes me really worried as to what in the world they were thinking.
 
Acehilator said:
Reminds me of the Tyranids Psychic Awakening book for 40k. Quarter-arsed BS because nobody couldn't be bothered.

Not sure I am buying that Seraphon have interested parties inside GW HQ. The "Painting & converting" post that went up today shows that too.
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Don't you dare compare this to that rag. It may have had some okay things in it, but overall it was a useless printing for Tyranids.
 
Canas said:
I think in this particular case you're going to have to take into account some of them as we have a bunch that are fairly impactfull and have a fairly large range. I mean so far we've already seen a +1 bite attack on everything and +2 wounds on every monster if you have the right subfaction. That's not something you can really ignore.
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tight but if the war scroll hadn't changed then those new buffs would still apply
 
Canas said:
1 spell total as a cap would make it basicly impossible to summon the big stuff no matter what list you use. That'd be stupid. It'l literally make half the summoning list useless unless you consistently roll 3's on your D3's. I would assume they're not that bad at making rules..
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The Spanish translations for GW are not know for being the best translations.

What i read is:

- You recive 1d3 conjuration points at the start of hero fase if your general is SLANN or STARSEER and is on the battelfield
- 1d3 more if one or more ASTROLITH are on the battlefield
- In addition, in your hero fase, before trying to cast the first spell with a friendly SLANN OR ORACLE, you can declare that you are going to perform a celestial invocation/summoning. If you do so, you recive 1D3 conjuration points but the number of spells that the model can cast in that fase is reduced by 1.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
lazy is the name of the game! suarus heros share a command ability slan and kroak do to. every one has the same spells! so much variety
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Oh man, I just checked back to see this for myself and it is pretty much the same across Kroak's entire warscroll! He's got all the abilities of a basic slann with only 3 "unique" abilities, and they're not even all that iconic! Some of their names are cool (Dead Since a Time Immemorial), but all that is is a 4+ W/MW shrug. I mean, his Celestial Retribution spell is pretty cool, but that's it...well, so much for him being a unique, almost god-like character...sigh...

I won't let this get me down though. I'm still looking forward to the full subfaction rules, mount traits & items.
 
Putzfrau said:
I totally agree, but the problem comes in when theyve removed so many tricks it becomes functionally impossible to outplay a stronger army.

The "strong" armies right now are fairly straight forward. They have strong warscrolls, strong spells, and strong allegiance abilities.

We used to be able to compete because we had 3"deepstrikes, rerolling wounds, massive summoning, 2 free teleports, and wary fighter.
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This is a very legitimate concern.

Starborn seraphon are basically old seraphon, but summoning is no more and the rest is still dubiuos. So they could be weaker than what we are now.

Coalesced give away all of our classic tricks for more staying power. They play the same game played by other armies, but i fear without the same stats or bonuses.

I really don't know...
 
Cuetzpal Pilli said:
Oh man, I just checked back to see this for myself and it is pretty much the same across Kroak's entire warscroll! He's got all the abilities of a basic slann with only 3 "unique" abilities, and they're not even all that iconic! Some of their names are cool (Dead Since a Time Immemorial), but all that is is a measly 4+ W/MW shrug. I mean, his Celestial Retribution spell is pretty cool, but that's it...well, so much for him being a unique, almost god-like character...sigh...

I won't let this get me down though. I'm still looking forward to the full subfaction rules, mount traits & items.
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yup sad isn't it
 
karlsbc said:
The Spanish translations for GW are not know for being the best translations.

What i read is:

- You recive 1d3 conjuration points at the start of hero fase if your general is SLANN or STARSEER and is on the battelfield
- 1d3 more if one or more ASTROLITH are on the battlefield
- In addition, in your hero fase, before trying to cast the first spell with a friendly SLANN OR ORACLE, can you declare at you are going to perform a celestial invocation/summoning. If you do it, you recive 1D3 conjuration points but the number of spells that the model can cast in that fase it's reduced by 1.
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well that looks terrible...
 
The good thing is, with all that we can see now, is that we can give good feedback to GW for when we get an FAQ.


Perhaps they can increase the amount of summoning points we can get. Or decrease the amount of points that some of those were scrolls cost. We will know after we've played with the book for a bit how impactful all of these things are.
 
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