AoS NEW *rumor*

[Aginor]

it's not a retcon, there've been physical seraphon from the beginning. Sunbloods (and obviously the slann themselves) are survivors from the old world. And the "remembered" seraphon became physical if they survived for an extended period of time.

The only thing that's really changed now is that spawning pools have re-emerged proper again.

This.
The lore team made a post about it (on Facebook I think) ages ago.
Some Seraphon are real and just teleported in when summoned (think Protoss), some aren't. That's nothing new.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I thought it always sort of made sense that the (seemingly?) single spawning pools in each temple ship didn’t produce enough warriors to fight the infinite forces of chaos, especially if each ship is one of the cities/landmarks that took off from the old world (I mean, they’d be what, single digits of them? Maybe low double digits?).

Slann being on a much higher level of power in AoS, and having their debilitating factor here be effectively PTSD from the end times, it feels thematic that they’d summon up their favored warriors from the memories they’re so heavily trapped by, to lead and bolster the living seraphon that carry on the day-to-day of life, free of the mental burdens on the slann.

there where 35 temple cities in the lizard man hay day of those 3 where corrupted beyond recovery and 4 where left in ruin so about 28 cities have always supplied the lizard men legions if half of those made it into space then we are still capable of pumping out thousands of troops

 

[Canas]

there where 35 temple cities in the lizard man hay day of those 3 where corrupted beyond recovery and 4 where left in ruin so about 28 cities have always supplied the lizard men legions if half of those made it into space then we are still capable of pumping out thousands of troops

Sure, but pumping out thousands of troops would immeadiatly deplete those cities and not be sustainable for any extended period of time.

The old world was only 1 world. And the lizardmen mostly stuck to their own little bit in the jungle. Using the various feral creatures living there, and the fact that most invaders would fall to desease & have trouble with supply-lines anyway to their advantage. In that context they're not going to suffer particularly heavy losses, nor do they even need a particularly large standing army. So a "mere" 30-ish cities would be more than enough to maintain a fairly powerfull empire covering roughly a continent.

The mortal realms however are far larger. And the seraphon are far more active than the lizardmen ever were in the old world. They need far more troops to cover everything, they suffer far greater losses fighting far more powerfull foes (there's only 3 notable wars in the old world for the lizardmen, the first daemon war, the pestilence invasion of lustria & the end-times, aside from that the lizardmen didn't really have to deal with more than occasional expeditions of a handfull of humans/aelves/etc.), and they just have a lot more ground to cover. So yeah, the slann kind of need to be throwing in summoned troops to keep up.

Admittadly, this does depend on how large each of these temple cities are. If each of the space temple city ships contains several million seraphon it'd be a different story. But this doesn't appear to be the case. And even if they change that so that they can mantain that many "physical" seraphon, there's still a very strong argument in favour of using the summoned ones given the atrocious losses they suffer nowadays fighting across multiple realms, and against everything from Archeon to Nagash.

 

[Togetic]

there where 35 temple cities in the lizard man hay day of those 3 where corrupted beyond recovery and 4 where left in ruin so about 28 cities have always supplied the lizard men legions if half of those made it into space then we are still capable of pumping out thousands of troops

As far as I can tell (which, is based on what’s been documented in sources like wikis so I could be wrong!) there were eight (nine, if we could Albion’s one as canon) surviving temple cities by the End Times, with maybe five ruined cities with an attempted recolonization/minor Lizardmen presence still within them.

Itza seems to have not left orbit given the stated fate of Nakai and Gor-Rok, and I believe Hexoatl is singled out as the last untainted (as in, not taken over by the Skaven, or reclaimed from them after their initial occupation) of the temple cities, by the time the exodus begins. Even assuming every other city takes off besides itza that’s still only really twelve or thirteen canon locations that made it into orbit.

I mean, the nature of the setting means there’s probably enough temple ships to fit whatever is necessary for the plot, and it shouldn’t really be seen as any restriction on fan fluff, but extrapolating things from the end times leaves the state of their natural spawning a little dire compared to other factions.

 

[Carnikang]

Each one of these Temple ships houses what is assumed to be portions of Lustria as well, so the physical Lizardmen are supplemented by physical dinosaurs at least. I would love it if we got a mortal race (humans preferably) that were taken into space as well, to be the living labor and worshippers of the Seraphon/Slann. Amazonians maybe?

That'd be a nice to have, an actual allied faction that's not SCE, and we'd have the return of an old army. Rename them something suitably AoS.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Sure, but pumping out thousands of troops would immeadiatly deplete those cities and not be sustainable for any extended period of time.

well the first demon war lasted 800 years andwe did most of the fighting in that one quote "Faced with annihilation, the remaining Slann rallied, mustering armies the sizes of which have never been seen in the world since. The Daemons attacked everywhere, but the Lizardmen bore the brunt of the attack." that means we where fighting everything that the warp could throw at a world for almost a millennia and wile we where losing we held our own for most of that

 

[Canas]

well the first demon war lasted 800 years andwe did most of the fighting in that one quote "Faced with annihilation, the remaining Slann rallied, mustering armies the sizes of which have never been seen in the world since. The Daemons attacked everywhere, but the Lizardmen bore the brunt of the attack." that means we where fighting everything that the warp could throw at a world for almost a millennia and wile we where losing we held our own for most of that

yes, but during the first daemon war the lizardmen also basicly controlled the entire planet, not just a mere 30 temple cities. So they had vastly more resources at their desposal. Not to mention that at the time you had the first generation slanns who were vastly more powerfull than what we currently have.

Right now we merely have a bunch of space ships, definitly not a planet's worth of resources & manpower. And aside from Kroak no slann rivals the power of that first generation.

So yeah, currently we definitly need our summoned versions.

Admittadly I do hope we start to develop some real strongholds in the mortal realms, it would allow the seraphon to start rebuilding and work on the great plan again in a tangible manner.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

yes, but during the first daemon war the lizardmen also basicly controlled the entire planet, not just a mere 30 temple cities. So they had vastly more resources at their desposal. Not to mention that at the time you had the first generation slanns who were vastly more powerfull than what we currently have.

no we where still only in lustria the los of the slanns is painfull thou but thats more a downside for summoning then anything else

Right now we merely have a bunch of space ships, definitly not a planet's worth of resources & manpower. And aside from Kroak no slann rivals the power of that first generation.

city sized space ships and big chunks of a contanent at our disposal less but by no means little

Admittadly I do hope we start to develop some real strongholds in the mortal realms, it would allow the seraphon to start rebuilding and work on the great plan again in a tangible manner.

good news then it looks like that happened with a bunch of feral saurus clans in gur

 

[Lustrian Giant]

This is still great, as there are the spawning pools and temple cities, it's not out of the question than for the Slann to colonize some planets would it?

It would make sense so that you can have a defended location and the ability to have an entire planets worth of saurus to call apon.

 

[popsghostly]

Not being familiar with Warcry does this mean we can field a Seraphon Warband in Warcry now with that Tome of Champions Book?

 

[Lustrian Giant]

That would be correct

 

[popsghostly]

That would be correct

Thanks. Well I'll add that to the purchase list. Only thing keeping me back from getting involved.

 

[Lustrian Giant]

Same here, I'll have break out my seraphon and ogors for this haha!

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Right now we merely have a bunch of space ships, definitly not a planet's worth of resources & manpower. And aside from Kroak no slann rivals the power of that first generation.

I think maybe Kroak is above any gen 1 slann from the old world now.

Maybe the slann never summoned the anything, but instead all skinks and saurus were just playing VR, big dinos being kill streaks and Slann being on location to allow the connection to reach

 

[Captaniser]

I thought it always sort of made sense that the (seemingly?) single spawning pools in each temple ship didn’t produce enough warriors to fight the infinite forces of chaos, especially if each ship is one of the cities/landmarks that took off from the old world (I mean, they’d be what, single digits of them? Maybe low double digits?).

This is also the theory that i have had regarding the spawning of the lizardmen/seraphon, the spawning pools just can't keep up with the amount of enemies that the lizardmen have. In the newer lore we have gotten from the malign portens story that featured the seraphon, we do find out that they are capable of spawning new Serpahon from the spawning pools when they want to, but at a cost.

"He stepped up to the glyph-stone in the center of the platform, and his hand hovered an inch from its shimmering surface. Never before had a lowly Starpriest been given such terrible responsibility. It was no small thing to accelerate the cycle of spawning. Seraphon birthed too early were often prone to fits of bestial rage, unable to control the predatory impulses of their primordial selves.

Yet Maq’uat could see no other option. Steeling his mind, he pressed his claw down upon the glyph-stone, as he had seen his master do so many times before.

There was a deep grinding sound before the thunderous roar of rushing liquid. The golden wheels began to spin, and water gushed out in frothing torrents. Writhing shapes could be seen within the deluge, the protean forms from which the armies of the stars would grow.

The warm air became humid, and then swelteringly hot. Maq’uat watched the pool bubble and boil with new life.

A chorus of shrill screams filled the air, frenzied and agonised, spilling forth from half-formed mouths. Blood stained the waters.

‘Born with hate,’ said Narok-Gar, causing Maq’uat to jump. The Sunblood had approached with surprising stealth. ‘Born in pain. Pain gives strength.’"

 

[Carnikang]

I forgot how good that last passage was in the MP story.

Shivers under my scales.

 

[Nart]

Not being familiar with Warcry does this mean we can field a Seraphon Warband in Warcry now with that Tome of Champions Book?

Note, that Tome of Champions doesn't contain Seraphon datacards. All that you would get is unique campaign rules and artifacts/traits for this campaign. In general, ToC is more like GHB for Warcry.

Datacards for seraphon are not yet released but they will be soon.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

(sigh) come on already i want to play warcry with my friends

 

[little-myth]

The story in Malign Portents makes me think whether these deformed Seraphon end up as elite of sorts, how the pain gives the strength I can imagine them fighting to the bitter end cause the pain just constantly drives them on. Resilient to whatever hits them cause they are already suffering.
Much to think about from that little bit of writing.
Or it could be the scenario of most deformed creatures is that they end up dying before seeing battle.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

The story in Malign Portents makes me think whether these deformed Seraphon end up as elite of sorts, how the pain gives the strength I can imagine them fighting to the bitter end cause the pain just constantly drives them on. Resilient to whatever hits them cause they are already suffering.
Much to think about from that little bit of writing.
Or it could be the scenario of most deformed creatures is that they end up dying before seeing battle.

or bizerkers like how TW has them at low health