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AoS NEW *rumor*

well that was disappointing i was hoping that the FAQ would take the edge of of the more prominent armies but it looks like with the exception of warp Lightning vortex we will just have to grit our teeth and solder on.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
well that was disappointing i was hoping that the FAQ would take the edge of of the more prominent armies but it looks like with the exception of warp Lightning vortex we will just have to grit our teeth and solder on.
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FEC, Skaven, and DoK all got nerfed.

FEC's Savage strike actually has a playaround now instead of just being a big delete button for whoever you got him into it.

DoK had some point nerfs which may or may not have an impact, but all their big hitters did go up a bit.

All of Skaven's characters went up by some points which means they'll have to make some choices on toys.

Overall, it's certainly a light touch but I think you'll see a meta shake up for sure.
 
Putzfrau said:
FEC, Skaven, and DoK all got nerfed.

FEC's Savage strike actually has a playaround now instead of just being a big delete button for whoever you got him into it.

DoK had some point nerfs which may or may not have an impact, but all their big hitters did go up a bit.

All of Skaven's characters went up by some points which means they'll have to make some choices on toys.

Overall, it's certainly a light touch but I think you'll see a meta shake up for sure.
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I wish they had given Kroak a light touch :(
 
I was hoping for a Point reduction towards 400 or a lower casting value for good spells
 
Putzfrau said:
FEC, Skaven, and DoK all got nerfed.

FEC's Savage strike actually has a playaround now instead of just being a big delete button for whoever you got him into it.

DoK had some point nerfs which may or may not have an impact, but all their big hitters did go up a bit.

All of Skaven's characters went up by some points which means they'll have to make some choices on toys.

Overall, it's certainly a light touch but I think you'll see a meta shake up for sure.
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you are right FEC lost half of one of there toys and got a boost to a different one we now get to hit them first if we manage to charge the 14" flying monster but if we do kill it it now has the option to pile in twice and make shur that what ever could kill it is good and dead good luck dealing with the three others.

Skaven heroes did go up but a bunch of there units got a price cut so i don't think its going to hurt them the unit that did go up plague monks only went up by 10 witch relay wasn't enough. the biggest change they had was warp vortex rage got nerfed hard now its almost as dangerous for them as it is for there opponents

i had forgotten DoK it is going to hurt them that they only get 2 free pile ins instead of 4 we will have to see.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
you are right FEC lost half of one of there toys and got a boost to a different one we now get to hit them first if we manage to charge the 14" flying monster but if we do kill it it now has the option to pile in twice and make shur that what ever could kill it is good and dead good luck dealing with the three others.
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It is a huge nerf. FEC became vulnerable to Shadowstrike. Terrorgeist cannot freely fly through the battlefield directly killing everything it wants. I presume, it is not auto-include now. As for double-attack on death, it is still better than ASF. And it requires more CP, which is harder to gain after CP-spam nerf. With point increases on top of that, I view FEC going from completely broken to simply overpowered.

Erta Wanderer said:
Skaven heroes did go up but a bunch of there units got a price cut so i don't think its going to hurt them the unit that did go up plague monks only went up by 10 witch relay wasn't enough. the biggest change they had was warp vortex rage got nerfed hard now its almost as dangerous for them as it is for there opponents
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10 points increase to spammable unit is also huge. Look at skinks - they are taken 3x10, but still increasing their cost made some builds unvaluable. 120 plague-monks lists are now 120 points more. Important support heroes are also up in cost. Skaven now have to sacrifice something. WLV is also significantly toned down.

Erta Wanderer said:
i had forgotten DoK it is going to hurt them that they only get 2 free pile ins instead of 4 we will have to see.
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30 witch aelves will slaughter everything anyway. They already got their hit with +20 points in GHB.

All these armies are still tier S, but I hope, at least they stopped playing their own version of AoS.

I also hope, that lack of FAQs for us heralds new battletome soon, as there are lots of wordings that could be fixed. But GW didn't bother. Could it mean something?
 
Nart said:
I also hope, that lack of FAQs for us heralds new battletome soon, as there are lots of wordings that could be fixed. But GW didn't bother. Could it mean something?
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One can certainly hope.
But the fact that they included the two old bataillons in the list and only noticed it after the book was already in print, to then remove them by errata sheet hints at them just being lazy and/or not caring for Seraphon.
 
Aginor said:
One can certainly hope.
But the fact that they included the two old bataillons in the list and only noticed it after the book was already in print, to then remove them by errata sheet hints at them just being lazy and/or not caring for Seraphon.
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In fairness, with the amount of stuff going into a F.A.Q. within moments after a major release that's just par for the course for GW.
 
Canas said:
In fairness, with the amount of stuff going into a F.A.Q. within moments after a major release that's just par for the course for GW.
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Yeah. Still a bad thing though.
To me that says that they don't proof read or playtest at all, regardless of what they claim to do.
 
Nart said:
It is a huge nerf. FEC became vulnerable to Shadowstrike. Terrorgeist cannot freely fly through the battlefield directly killing everything it wants. I presume, it is not auto-include now. As for double-attack on death, it is still better than ASF. And it requires more CP, which is harder to gain after CP-spam nerf. With point increases on top of that, I view FEC going from completely broken to simply overpowered.

10 points increase to spammable unit is also huge. Look at skinks - they are taken 3x10, but still increasing their cost made some builds unvaluable. 120 plague-monks lists are now 120 points more. Important support heroes are also up in cost. Skaven now have to sacrifice something. WLV is also significantly toned down.
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this is fair i still don't like how Terrorgeist can delete any unit they want but you have a point.

the thing is i don't think that's going to hurt monks much they cost less then saurus warriors same model count 2 attacks in all unit sizes auto rerole attacks without support and with support its 5-7 attacks (i've herd different reports if someone could clarify that would be great) -1 rend, reroll wounds and pile in twice when they die i know there fragile but thats still dumb.
 
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Aginor said:
Yeah. Still a bad thing though.
To me that says that they don't proof read or playtest at all, regardless of what they claim to do.
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Especially the playtesting I find weird. I know testing is difficult, but some of the changes are so big, or change something so crucial to the rule or model's identiy you can't help but wonder how they missed it.
 
Canas said:
Especially the playtesting I find weird. I know testing is difficult, but some of the changes are so big, or change something so crucial to the rule or model's identiy you can't help but wonder how they missed it.
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Yeah especially if you consider that in many cases the players out here spotted those loopholes and imbalances pretty much instantly.
I remember before the GHB2018 was released there were some leaks of Seraphon content, and several of us read and discussed them, instantly recognizing the broken combos that would be possible and finding the typos and so on. It took only hours and not a single rolled dice or played match.

How is it possible that none of those were spotted by the play testers. Didn't they play the army? Every halfway decent player playing Seraphon or regularly playing against Seraphon can spot those issues with ease. They all sure did once the rules were released, TGA and 4chan had the "Age of Skinkmar" meme going even before we had the book.

Edit:
Same this time. How did they include the points for the two bataillons and not notice that they don't have warscrolls? Any Seraphon player would instantly have noticed that.
 
Aginor said:
Yeah especially if you consider that in many cases the players out here spotted those loopholes and imbalances pretty much instantly.
I remember before the GHB2018 was released there were some leaks of Seraphon content, and several of us read and discussed them, instantly recognizing the broken combos that would be possible and finding the typos and so on. It took only hours and not a single rolled dice or played match.

How is it possible that none of those were spotted by the play testers. Didn't they play the army? Every halfway decent player playing Seraphon or regularly playing against Seraphon can spot those issues with ease. They all sure did once the rules were released, TGA and 4chan had the "Age of Skinkmar" meme going even before we had the book.

Edit:
Same this time. How did they include the points for the two bataillons and not notice that they don't have warscrolls? Any Seraphon player would instantly have noticed that.
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sounds like they don't have people that play the army working on the review team. they should have a department head for each faction that proofreads releases that involve their faction.
 
ILKAIN said:
sounds like they don't have people that play the army working on the review team. they should have a department head for each faction that proofreads releases that involve their faction.
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To be honest this seems the most likely explenation; there playtesters are just a very small group of similar players (e.g. similar playstyle so it doesn't occur to them to abuse X or Y).

Also, they should probably just hire some proper testers, at least those'd know to test the fringe cases so you wouldn't run into stupid stuff like Morathi breaking endless spells by having double the range of everyone...
 
ILKAIN said:
sounds like they don't have people that play the army working on the review team. they should have a department head for each faction that proofreads releases that involve their faction.
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That would be perfect, but I don't even think that is necessary. They certainly ky have people playing several armies, and they could ask the Warhammer community guys. There have to be at least one or two guys available for each army in the game.
They could also ask tournament players what are strong/weak/broken combinations in their armies (or the armies they encounter). If course you might miss a few, but you might at least get some hints where to search. It takes no Prophet to see stuff like Saurus Guard or Warriors not being a competitive choice.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
this is fair i still don't like how Terrorgeist can delete any unit they want but you have a point.

the thing is i don't think that's going to hurt monks much they cost less then saurus warriors same model count 2 attacks in all unit sizes auto rerole attacks without support and with support its 5-7 attacks (i've herd different reports if someone could clarify that would be great) -1 rend, reroll wounds and pile in twice when they die i know there fragile but thats still dumb.
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I don't recall. I just remember they trigger additional effects when they roll 6+.

I don't care of they are fragile... it's a unit with a dumb design.
 
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