AoS NEW *rumor*

[Erta Wanderer]

meh, a rule like this does naturally prevent stacking too much (2 auras like this will never stack). So I guess that's going to be the new standard.

However, combined with the fact that it's going to take ages for other factions to get similar rules to be able to keep up it's definitely going to result in powercreep.... Stupid staggered releases...

you say that but they don't need to stack auras. sisters of slaughter have 3 attacks 3/4/-/1 then you hit them with the aura 3 3/3/-1/1 then you get blood rights 3 2/2/-1/1 (you can get this turn 2) then you have the subfaction 3 2/2/-2/1 then you have mind razor 3 2/2/-3/2 and THEN you fight twice.
this is all with no CP and only one spell and one prayer that auto goes off.

 

[Canas]

you say that but they don't need to stack auras. sisters of slaughter have 3 attacks 3/4/-/1 then you hit them with the aura 3 3/3/-1/1 then you get blood rights 3 2/2/-1/1 (you can get this turn 2) then you have the subfaction 3 2/2/-2/1 then you have mind razor 3 2/2/-3/2 and THEN you fight twice.
this is all with no CP and only one spell and one prayer that auto goes off.

The issue in your example isn't the aura. It's that they have 5 separate easily accessible buffs for some inexplicable reason that all neatly avoid the various anti-stacking rules GW just introduced. Hell, the aura isn't even the biggest buff in there.

Imho the aura itself is a neat idea. Makes footheroes relevant, and if it was implemented properly it could be used to keep buffs within reasonable while also allowing them to be impactfull, prevents stacking, & it allows people to create a solid frontline of multiple decent units, instead of being limited to 1 death-star that's buffed to absurd heights.

Unfortunatly, it does not appear to be implemented properly....

 

[Erta Wanderer]

It's that they have 5 separate easily accessible buffs for some inexplicable reason that all neatly avoid the various anti-stacking rules GW just introduced.

congrats you have found the point i originally made
my statement was in response to this "(2 auras like this will never stack)" and this does stack with other buffs and stacking multiple of said auras would be pointless

 

[Killer Angel]

The issue is that they are elves, and GW is biased toward them.

 

[Dread Saurian]

The issue is that they are elves, and GW is biased toward them.

Gw needs to hire authors who are biased against the aelves xD

 

[Kilvakar]

The Sylvaneth rules previews are starting to appear:

https://www.warhammer-community.com...-trees-thanks-to-vibrant-new-sylvaneth-rules/

 

[Erta Wanderer]

well strike and fade is pretty good. they already had tree teleport but not they have a lot mor flexibility with it. and then a bad heal
over all not bad

 

[Dreamkeeper]

Some rumors from TGA

- Sylvaneth Battletome
The Wyldwoods will act like spell portals

- GHB / Battlescroll
Dragon hero phase move goes away
Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll (this is sad, if true)
Living City Strike then Melt Away must finish the movement outside 9" of any enemy

- Lumineth Battletome
Sentinels 24" reach, need LOS and lambent is changed though I dont know how
Wind Spirits no longer move in opponents phase
Stonemage can let the Stoneguard do MWs on 5s and 6s

 

[Kilvakar]

Sylvaneth base their entire army around Wyldwoods just about, so having them act like spell portals is pretty interesting.

Hero phase moves and moving in opponent's phases are really annoying and make certain armies really hard to play around, so I do like the idea of removing those.

If scaly skin goes away, Seraphon are dropping down to low B or C-tier. We're already not placing in the top 5 or even the top 10 at most tournaments these days, this will be a terrible blow and we'll probably drop off the competitive scene completely until our new book comes out. Everything in our book outside of Bastiladons is extremely easy to kill, so this will mean that armies that we could previously tank will now decimate us. However, I've always said that scaly skin should be a ward save and not a -1 damage, so maybe they'll change that in our next book...

Sentinels were probably the most un-interactive unit in the game. Just sit back and shoot at artillery range, ignoring LoS and dealing lots of mortal wounds. I'm sure Lumineth will get something to buff them in compensation and hopefully be better balanced afterward. Kind of like how Idoneth managed to nerf Eel spam without making Eels useless

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll (this is sad, if true)

Just for Thunder Lizards? Not for all of Coalesced?

I'll take that with a grain of salt, TBH.

Still, I fully expect Seraphon to get absolutely trashed by the rules for trying to accommodate two fundamentally different armies that use the exact same unit warscrolls, as usual. It's been of little surprise since the 2e Seraphon Battletome that the vast majority of our units have been hot garbage rules-wise as a result of this impossible balancing act, with or without synergies.

The only other army I know of that also got trashed in 3.0 was Ironjawz, and that was only due to GW's push to get people to buy the mutilated elvesKruleboyz and balancing the entire Orruk Warclans faction around the Big Waaagh! army.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Some rumors from TGA

- Sylvaneth Battletome
The Wyldwoods will act like spell portals

that would be oppressively powerful.

- GHB / Battlescroll
Dragon hero phase move goes away

good.

Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll (

this is sad, if true)

mmmm that is going to HURT a lot but it's probably for the best

Living City Strike then Melt Away must finish the movement outside 9" of any enemy

um ok. not realy a problem but fine

- Lumineth Battletome
Sentinels 24" reach, need LOS and lambent is changed though I dont know how

sounds a lot more reasonable.

Wind Spirits no longer move in opponents phase

good

Stonemage can let the Stoneguard do MWs on 5s and 6s

sure that s what the rest of the army does so this sounds about right.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

If scaly skin goes away, Seraphon are dropping down to low B or C-tier. We're already not placing in the top 5 or even the top 10 at most tournaments these days, this will be a terrible blow and we'll probably drop off the competitive scene completely until our new book comes out. Everything in our book outside of Bastiladons is extremely easy to kill, so this will mean that armies that we could previously tank will now decimate us. However, I've always said that scaly skin should be a ward save and not a -1 damage, so maybe they'll change that in our next book...

our army is a bag of silver bullets most of our stuff is remarkably mediocre but we have the perfect counter to almost everything to make up for it. on top of that 3rd edition was almost tailor made for us in so many ways. it took all of our really bad stuff and made it solid.

 

[Killer Angel]

Some rumors from TGA
...
Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll (this is sad, if true)
...

At that point, why should i bother playing something that doesn't have LoSaT and no bravery 10?

But it wouldn't surprise me. GW never understood its own game.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

At that point, why should i bother playing something that doesn't have LoSaT and no bravery 10?

But it wouldn't surprise me. GW never understood its own game.

that was always the argument againsed coalesced. most of what they do is useless, bravery bombs aren't a thing so cold blooded is still usless(even after they fixed it) and out side of arcane terrain has no impact on a game so that ability is bad.
up untill 3rd edition even Scaly skin was bad since almost nothing ran multi damage. if they take it away then coalesced will go back to having no value, we will do ok we still hard counter magic builds(less common but still out there), our allies are still good and salamanders still hurt.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

In all seriousness, the benefits of Coalesced always was a sideshow compared to the subfactions it had under its sway. You weren't taking Coalesced for the -1 to incoming damage or the +1 jaw attacks; you were taking it to spam Stegadons as battleline in Thunder Lizards or the umpteenth attempt at making Saurus remotely viable in Koatl's Claw.

 

[Kilvakar]

Still, I fully expect Seraphon to get absolutely trashed by the rules for trying to accommodate two fundamentally different armies that use the exact same unit warscrolls, as usual. It's been of little surprise since the 2e Seraphon Battletome that the vast majority of our units have been hot garbage rules-wise as a result of this impossible balancing act, with or without synergies.

Yeah, this is why we need a dual army approach rather than trying to treat Starborne and Coalesced as subfactions. Our units need different point costs in different armies along with their different abilities.

mmmm that is going to HURT a lot but it's probably for the best

I know you are much more knowledgeable about the competitive side of things, but why is this good? All it does is throw Coalesced back in the trash and force us to go back to summoning and teleporting weak units. I'd really much rather play savage Saurus or big dinosaurs than Skink blobs and Salamander spam...

our army is a bag of silver bullets most of our stuff is remarkably mediocre but we have the perfect counter to almost everything to make up for it. on top of that 3rd edition was almost tailor made for us in so many ways. it took all of our really bad stuff and made it solid.

True, we can counter most things if we build for them specifically (except maybe Nurgle, which seems to be as close to a hard counter as there is to Seraphon right now). But you can only build to counter one or two things, unlike a lot of the other 3e lists that are much better at taking on all comers. Also, how is all our bad stuff solid? There's no reason to use Ripperdactyls, Razordons, and honestly very little reason to use Saurus or Terradons either.

At that point, why should i bother playing something that doesn't have LoSaT and no bravery 10?

If they only wanted us to play the teleporting and summoning style, why did they split the army in the first place? Also, why are Seraphon are still hated even though they're rapidly being outpaced by the new 3e books? I know that we can counter stuff, but we're long past being able to counter everything. At the Vault Wars tournament Seraphon placed 20th with only 2 wins, and I haven't seen them placing high on any recent tournament scoreboards. Pretty much every 3e book except Fyreslayers is stronger than us right now. I will concede that the -1 damage rule is pretty lame when you're playing armies that run more than 1 damage attacks, but it's basically the only good rule Coalesced has. Also, if this is true and not just hearsay I find it suspicious that we would get a hard nerf like that as other armies that are getting their 3e books are getting a lot of multi-damage attacks.... Not that it even matters all that much since everything pumps out more mortal wounds than regular damage these days. Doesn't seem like this nerf is all that needed....

 

[Tombomb7]

I too have noticed Seraphon have dropped.off the top spots.of events in the last month, presumably as 3.0 books come out and the good players a)are bored of spamming Sallies, fielding EOTG Slann Basti TL lists and want to try something else and b) other newer books outpace us for damage, mobility, tech, cool models?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I know you are much more knowledgeable about the competitive side of things, but why is this good? All it does is throw Coalesced back in the trash and force us to go back to summoning and teleporting weak units. I'd really much rather play savage Saurus or big dinosaurs than Skink blobs and Salamander spam...

what it does is take a bad rule that never should have been and throw it in the bin were it belongs. scaly skin is a bad rule it is either crippling or worthless. it alows no counter play feels bad for you when it doesn't work and bad for your oponent when it does. it willmake us much weaker as it hard counters 40% of armies out there and is a big part of what makes us viable BUT i am willing to amputate the arm if it means removing this cancer from the game. i feel the same way about a lot of rules.

True, we can counter most things if we build for them specifically (except maybe Nurgle, which seems to be as close to a hard counter as there is to Seraphon right now). But you can only build to counter one or two things, unlike a lot of the other 3e lists that are much better at taking on all comers. Also, how is all our bad stuff solid? There's no reason to use Ripperdactyls, Razordons, and honestly very little reason to use Saurus or Terradons either.

as is coalesced with a slann hard counters half of the game and cheep screens and salamanders soft counter everything else. it's boring it doesn't make our stuff good but it's true.

 

[Kilvakar]

I too have noticed Seraphon have dropped.off the top spots.of events in the last month, presumably as 3.0 books come out and the good players a)are bored of spamming Sallies, fielding EOTG Slann Basti TL lists and want to try something else and b) other newer books outpace us for damage, mobility, tech, cool models?

We still have a high winrate overall, but are no longer winning a lot of tournaments after the last few releases. 3e books have all been very strong, with the possible exception of Fyreslayers, which I don't know that much about but a lot of people say it's not great. I definitely get the feeling that people are tired of spamming Salamanders, plus the prime target nerf hit them harder than just about any unit since they die so easily and we usually have to bring a lot of them. (That's still a stupid attempt at balancing, they could have just released warscroll updates if units like that are so OP) We're still really popular and get played a lot, which is probably why there is such a high winrate despite dropping out of the top placements in tournaments.

scaly skin is a bad rule it is either crippling or worthless.

Agreed. I keep saying it should be a ward save instead, which does seem to be the standard for other armies that are supposed to be tougher defensively. I hope they change it rather than just deleting it altogether. If the rumor is true, people are just going to whine again if people go back to playing Skink blobs and Salamanders. People hated that list when that was what was more competitive.

and is a big part of what makes us viable BUT i am willing to amputate the arm if it means removing this cancer from the game. i feel the same way about a lot of rules.

I'm not sure I'd call it cancer, especially compared to a lot of the other stuff that's out there. It hurts vs a lot of armies, but most armies seem to get as much or more damage from mortal wounds as regular attacks these days. But what other rules do you think are that bad?

as is coalesced with a slann hard counters half of the game and cheep screens and salamanders soft counter everything else. it's boring it doesn't make our stuff good but it's true.

I really, really want Coalesced to remain good. If they take away the defense I'm not sure they'd be able to counter as much since the meta is so centered on alpha strikes that we have to tank and try to hit back afterward. You're right though, Slann and Salamanders are still good but an army that only has one viable list is a poorly designed army.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

But what other rules do you think are that bad?

iron heart, strikes first, battle shock immunity, double move in hero phase, double shoot.