AoS NEW *rumor*

[Erta Wanderer]

Yeah, unless they've got more to reveal looks like Skaven (and by extension, Seraphon) probably won't be getting a range refresh this edition. Just the "one new foot hero" treatment.

Wonder which one we'll get?

don't give up hope yet.








hold on to it for as long as you can so that it's only more devastating when you are finally dropped on your head

 

[Kilvakar]

Looks like Dawnbringer Crusades is a confirmed new part of Cities of Sigmar and not it's own new faction. But it sounds like the Human portion of Cities is getting a range refresh and/or new units!

https://www.warhammer-community.com...oject-to-put-mortals-back-into-mortal-realms/

And as everyone predicted, the new GHB focuses on a new unit type. This time, it's all about infantry, although there's an asterisk note saying that monsters will still be good. So I'm guessing we're not losing the monster buffs, but battle tactics will probably give the extra points to infantry now instead of monsters.

https://www.warhammer-community.com...ndbook-opens-for-the-first-time-this-edition/

Edit: And the Sylvaneth are getting a crap ton of new models!

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Looks like Dawnbringer Crusades is a confirmed new part of Cities of Sigmar and not it's own new faction. But it sounds like the Human portion of Cities is getting a range refresh and/or new units!

https://www.warhammer-community.com...oject-to-put-mortals-back-into-mortal-realms/

And as everyone predicted, the new GHB focuses on a new unit type. This time, it's all about infantry, although there's an asterisk note saying that monsters will still be good. So I'm guessing we're not losing the monster buffs, but battle tactics will probably give the extra points to infantry now instead of monsters.

https://www.warhammer-community.com...ndbook-opens-for-the-first-time-this-edition/

Edit: And the Sylvaneth are getting a crap ton of new models!

oh thank goodness. i'm a foot sloger kind of guy. monsters are fine but i like my line men

 

[Killer Angel]

Edit: And the Sylvaneth are getting a crap ton of new models!

I like the way they are developing the "giant bugs" line.
A whole forest at your command, why limit yourself to trees?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

A new skaven model.

Huh, all I was expecting was a new box of Night Runners and GW couldn't even manage that.

Still, a great model, and I haven't got an Assassin yet so it'll be worth me grabbing him sometime (at discount of course, not paying £20 for a single figure )

And the Sylvaneth are getting a crap ton of new models!

*Cough* Disgusting faction bias *Cough*

Looks like Dawnbringer Crusades is a confirmed new part of Cities of Sigmar and not it's own new faction. But it sounds like the Human portion of Cities is getting a range refresh and/or new units!

https://www.warhammer-community.com...oject-to-put-mortals-back-into-mortal-realms/

I'm certainly wondering if this is planned to be released around the time The Old World arrives, so that all the remaining Empire, Dwarf and Elf models from Fantasy can be moved over to the TOW part of the webstore for use in Warhammer Fantasy gaming once again, and are replaced in the AoS store with properly AoS-ified models that fit better with the new aesthetics.

I dearly hope they move on from Renaissance Germans with their new aesthetic because Renaissance Germans make little sense in a setting where there is no quasi-Renaissance-Germany, though given they've still given some of their new human characters German-sounding names for very little reason I'm not all that confident.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

*Cough* Disgusting faction bias *Cough*
.

well they are aelves....

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

well they are aelves....

I thought they were different to Elves, but yeah I suppose the Tree-Revenants count as Elves.

But then Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth both got only a single unnamed hero model, so I think it's something deeper than just Elf bias.

Whatever it is, it's still despicable, and shows GW hasn't changed much at all since the Fantasy days, despite the illusion that they project.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I thought they were different to Elves, but yeah I suppose the Tree-Revenants count as Elves.

But then Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth both got only a single unnamed hero model, so I think it's something deeper than just Elf bias.

Whatever it is, it's still despicable, and shows GW hasn't changed much at all since the Fantasy days, despite the illusion that they project.

ah but there in is the rub, you see there is a aelfe hierarchy. it goes
LRL
DoK
IDK
Sylvaneth.
everything else
GW has favorites even in its favorites

 

[Imrahil]

I like the way they are developing the "giant bugs" line.
A whole forest at your command, why limit yourself to trees?

I agree, also a lot of material to kitbash with
@Sudsinabucket

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Canas]

I thought they were different to Elves, but yeah I suppose the Tree-Revenants count as Elves.

But then Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth both got only a single unnamed hero model, so I think it's something deeper than just Elf bias.

Whatever it is, it's still despicable, and shows GW hasn't changed much at all since the Fantasy days, despite the illusion that they project.

The high elf archetype definitly seem to be the most favoured. Then dark elves, and then the various weirder off-shoots like the idoneth and sylvaneth.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

ah but there in is the rub, you see there is a aelfe hierarchy. it goes
LRL
DoK
IDK
Sylvaneth.
everything else
GW has favorites even in its favorites

The high elf archetype definitly seem to be the most favoured. Then dark elves, and then the various weirder off-shoots like the idoneth and sylvaneth.

I would have thought it's:

1. LRL
2. Sylvaneth
3. DoK
4. IDK
5. Everything else

Given that in 2nd Edition they managed to sneak in a second character model for Sylvaneth in Broken Realms, and now in Third they've given them an even bigger release, while DoK they have only given unnamed hero models to (though make up for it with broken rules - I will never play anyone who fields both versions of Morathi at the same time because that rule is just BS) and Idoneth at the bottom of the Elf hierarchy because GW didn't bother to update them in 2nd Edition and only gave them a single hero in Third.

To be more accurate the hierarchy is probably as follows:

1. Lumineth, Vampires, Stormcast and Slaanesh (Get a model a minute, get OP rules, portrayed as far stronger than they actually are in lore)
2. Sylvaneth, Warriors of Chaos, the other three Chaos God factions (Get a lot of favour with new models and/or strong rules, but not as much as their golden children)
3. DoK, anything else in Death, Cities of Skubmar (Frequently get strong rules but not much in the way of new models)
4. Destruction, Anything Dwarven (Either give them solid rules but next to nothing in the model department or, if they're in a particularly mean mood or have given them multiple models, rules that quickly suffer from powercreep)
5. Cool ex-Fantasy factions (Lizardmen, Beastmen, Skaven e.t.c) (Often trashes them in lore, rarely gives them a good solid Battletome and/or tries to actively avoid giving them new models)

 

[Canas]

I would have thought it's:

1. LRL
2. Sylvaneth
3. DoK
4. IDK
5. Everything else

Given that in 2nd Edition they managed to sneak in a second character model for Sylvaneth in Broken Realms, and now in Third they've given them an even bigger release, while DoK they have only given unnamed hero models to (though make up for it with broken rules - I will never play anyone who fields both versions of Morathi at the same time because that rule is just BS) and Idoneth at the bottom of the Elf hierarchy because GW didn't bother to update them in 2nd Edition and only gave them a single hero in Third.

To be more accurate the hierarchy is probably as follows:

1. Lumineth, Vampires, Stormcast and Slaanesh (Get a model a minute, get OP rules, portrayed as far stronger than they actually are in lore)
2. Sylvaneth, Warriors of Chaos, the other three Chaos God factions (Get a lot of favour with new models and/or strong rules, but not as much as their golden children)
3. DoK, anything else in Death, Cities of Skubmar (Frequently get strong rules but not much in the way of new models)
4. Destruction, Anything Dwarven (Either give them solid rules but next to nothing in the model department or, if they're in a particularly mean mood or have given them multiple models, rules that quickly suffer from powercreep)
5. Cool ex-Fantasy factions (Lizardmen, Beastmen, Skaven e.t.c) (Often trashes them in lore, rarely gives them a good solid Battletome and/or tries to actively avoid giving them new models)

mwha I think it's more like this:

1. Lumineth, Vampires & Slaanesh. Focus of the lore, get to defeat gods for some reason, hell Lumineth basicly defeated 2 gods at this point, ridiculous rules, loads of updates despite being relativly new to begin with
2. SCE, not because GW actually likes them, but because they've written themselves in a corner. They're the literal cornerstone of the setting. Not updating them is basicly impossible with the current narative. And by virtue of getting so many updates as well as being the posterboys for "the new cool thing" a good chunk of that army is going to be powerfull.
3. Sylvaneth strong focus in the lore, strong rules, weirdly frequent amount of new models yet somehow still a tiny faction)
4. The rest of death except FEC, DoK, CoS. Strong lore-focus frequent updates, strong rules, models are starting to become less frequent
5. Chaos in general, SoB, Idoneth, KO Still a decent lore-focus, Generally a considerable powercreep whenever they do get an update, but the period between updates is getting noticeably larger compared to the top 3. Occasionaly get overtaken by powercreep.
   1. Tzeentch/Khorne/Nurlge & FEC are in a weird spot somewhere between 5 & 6. Faction specific updates are starting to get sparse here. They look more favoured than they actually are due to their grand allegiance in general being favoured as well as their specific updates generally being good and/or their faction inherently being favoured by the meta (e.g. Tzeentch's shooting + magic is just inherently good in AoS). Or because they're simply the first book properly designed for the new edition like Nurgle has been twice.
6. Orks, goblins, Fyreslayers; Lore-wise a bit on the fringes, but at least still relevant in the occasional short-story. Updates are hit & miss, and they tend to be forgotten after recieving their update for the edition
7. Ogers, Lizardmen, Skaven, Beastmen. GW absolutly does not seem to know what to do with these factions, both lore and gameplaywise. Very few if any new models. Occasionally ends up making them OP on accident due to not really knowing what to do with them resulting in things like Kroaknado and skink spam.

 

[Sudsinabucket]

I agree, also a lot of material to kitbash with
@Sudsinabucket

Grrr, Imrahil

You have no idea.......

So many things ill be doing in the coming year(s)

Already working on a new homebrew faction for Destruction....

 

[Putzfrau]

Seraphon has quite literally always been OP (but the model comment definitely stands) and wood elves went 11 years without a book in fantasy.

I dunno if wood elves/sylvaneth has ever been on GWs good side...

 

[Sudsinabucket]

Ogers, Lizardmen, Skaven, Beastmen. GW absolutly does not seem to know what to do with these factions, both lore and gameplaywise. Very few if any new models. Occasionally ends up making them OP on accident due to not really knowing what to do with them resulting in things like Kroaknado and skink spam.

I gotta disagree here, especially "lorewise" for all of them, but especially Seraphon. I feel Seraphon's lore is in a pretty good and in an interesting spot, often in the center of the major conflict (Chamon, Kragnos, etc). I only wish we could get a central Seraphon story where we aren't the bad guys or somehow mess up, even with all our knowledge.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Seraphon has quite literally always been OP (but the model comment definitely stands)

You could argue the fact that only one particular army build being OP (and it's consistently been the same list build that doesn't represent the lore particularly well and encourages playing like a coward) and the rest being trash suggests that the AoS Lizardman books have been bad. Lizardman armies have always meant to be mainly based on Saurus and dinosaurs, with Skinks merely being a support unit rather than the frontline troops - this was not only possible to achieve in Fantasy but regularly yielded good results, whereas it's very difficult to play such a list build well in AoS. Not to mention that Lizardmen are always the ones to get defeated by a Chaos warband, Orc raid or skeletal legion before some other Order faction saves the day (usually Stormcast, Sylvaneth or Lumineth).

and wood elves went 11 years without a book in fantasy.

They still got a book in the very last edition, though, which brought them right up to date and placed them solidly in the middle tier of performance. Spare a thought for Skaven and in particular Beastmen and Bretonnia who didn't get 8th books, the latter two suffering in their playability because of that. Not to mention Tomb Kings and Greenskins getting 8th Edition books that ultimately became powercreeped.

I dunno if wood elves/sylvaneth has ever been on GWs good side...

I certainly think Sylvaneth have been on GW's good side ever since they were reimagined for AoS - GW are obsessed with Alarielle (why they are is beyond me because she is literally the most wooden, uninspiring character Warhammer has ever come up with) and the fact that they have been given several new units in this edition where most factions have just got one unnamed hero shows GW hold them in high esteem compared to most other factions.

I gotta disagree here, especially "lorewise" for all of them, but especially Seraphon. I feel Seraphon's lore is in a pretty good and in an interesting spot, often in the center of the major conflict (Chamon, Kragnos, etc). I only wish we could get a central Seraphon story where we aren't the bad guys or somehow mess up, even with all our knowledge.

Beastmen and Ogres have lost all their special characters and participate very little in the main lore, and while Skaven have kept two of their named characters they like the former two haven't had much lore development beyond their foundation in Fantasy. None of them have fared particularly well in the tournament scene, and

Lizardmen are perhaps better off than those three slightly, but it's not particularly appealing that the only competent build they can field is the list that directly avoids all the cool stuff - no Lizard warriors that can tear a man apart, no dinosaurs or lizard warriors riding them, just puny little skirmishers and a frog on a chair that plays silly objective games with them.

 

[Sudsinabucket]

Beastmen and Ogres have lost all their special characters

In reference to BoC, they have not lost all their special characters, at least lorewise, and are actually at the core of the narrative in Thondia with the incarnates. They just gained a shaman who survived against Allarielle, that's pretty beastly (Pun intended)

As for Ogors, ill take your word for it simply because I dont follow em really, I do know they were doing well on tabletop though, maybe not top tier but not horribly. BoC atm, according to the BoC facebook page is actually in an ok stop tabletop wise, again not top tier but not bottom of the barrel.

None of them have fared particularly well in the tournament scene

They'll have their time in the sun, eventually, but I also think (not speaking of you specifically) constantly wanting everything top tier always is why so many are let down constantly. But with saying that I do think they should mix up wjo is on top a bit more

Id think lack of lore would be the bigger issue, as with no lore there is no narrative reason for them to be on top.

Lizardmen are perhaps better off than those three slightly, but it's not particularly appealing that the only competent build they can field is the list that directly avoids all the cool stuff - no Lizard warriors that can tear a man apart, no dinosaurs or lizard warriors riding them, just puny little skirmishers and a frog that plays silly objective games with them.

Guess id argue this is why i think competitive is the inferior playstyle and that more Narrative and fluid list building competitions should be focused on - and just the rules team needs to do a better job at diversified factions and not a "one list for all" approach

 

[Killer Angel]

Not to mention that Lizardmen are always the ones to get defeated by a Chaos warband, Orc raid or skeletal legion before some other Order faction saves the day (usually Stormcast, Sylvaneth or Lumineth).

yep, in AoS our impact on the lore isn't exactly great.

 

[Putzfrau]

You could argue the fact that only one particular army build being OP (and it's consistently been the same list build that doesn't represent the lore particularly well and encourages playing like a coward) and the rest being trash suggests that the AoS Lizardman books have been bad. Lizardman armies have always meant to be mainly based on Saurus and dinosaurs, with Skinks merely being a support unit rather than the frontline troops - this was not only possible to achieve in Fantasy but regularly yielded good results, whereas it's very difficult to play such a list build well in AoS.

I always think it's funny the way lizardmen have literally always played is "wrong" and not the "right way" to play them. Fantasy lizardmen was always skink, magic and shooting heavy. Aos followed that exact mold.

They've always played like that on the tabletop. It's what their rules clearly want them to do. Maybe the fluff is wrong.

Also, beastmen and ogres have both had more than one 5-0 and several 4-1 finishes in 3.0.

I certainly think Sylvaneth have been on GW's good side ever since they were reimagined for AoS - GW are obsessed with Alarielle (why they are is beyond me because she is literally the most wooden, uninspiring character Warhammer has ever come up with) and the fact that they have been given several new units in this edition where most factions have just got one unnamed hero shows GW hold them in high esteem compared to most other factions.

It was essentially a brand new faction that only leveraged a tiny handful of existing units.

 

[Killer Angel]

I always think it's funny the way lizardmen have literally always played is "wrong" and not the "right way" to play them. Fantasy lizardmen was always skink, magic and shooting heavy. Aos followed that exact mold.

They've always played like that on the tabletop. It's what their rules clearly want them to do. Maybe the fluff is wrong.

yes and no. Are we talking about WHFB, right?
Magic has always been one of their strong points, fluff-wise and rule-wise.
Fluff-wise saurus were the backbone of the army, and more often than not in WHFB there were a deathstar of temple guards and knights bus carrying around a saurus cowboy build.
Skinks (fluff-wise) were mere harassing units, and (on the tabletop) clouds of skinks with skirmisher rule and poisoned shooting were a pain to deal with... to the point that skinks were more effective than saurus warriors regiments and were almost always favored to fill those troops points.
But saurus elite and characters were the main damage dealers.