AoS NEW *rumor*

[Canas]

It is basically 500 points. Seems like an ok starting point to grow your army.

Isn't it more like 400 points based on that leaked white dwarf battle report we saw a while back?

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that it's not a thematic, or otherwise sensible, combination of stuff that deserves the name "army". And even as a start collecting box it's fairly underwhelming as there doesn't seem to be any alternative unit builds in there, even when kitbashing. And one of the units is even a named character, of which you don't want doubles. I mean, sure it's probably a decent bundle in terms of money saved and every lumineth player wants the units in it at some point, but aside from the potential discount it is a wholly uninteresting bundle.

 

[Grotpunter]

Isn't it more like 400 points based on that leaked white dwarf battle report we saw a while back?

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that it's not a thematic, or otherwise sensible, combination of stuff that deserves the name "army". And even as a start collecting box it's fairly underwhelming as there doesn't seem to be any alternative unit builds in there, even when kitbashing. And one of the units is even a named character, of which you don't want doubles. I mean, sure it's probably a decent bundle in terms of money saved and every lumineth player wants the units in it at some point, but aside from the potential discount it is a wholly uninteresting bundle.

Its 140 + 130 + 220 (490) from what I recall.

But do we even know there wont be a seperate start collecting box beside this army box?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

something something 40k

 

[Duo Sonata]

Clearly it's the staff of a new Slann model

 

[Canas]

Clearly it's the staff of a new Slann model

nah clearly another follower of Nagash, it has a skull.

 

[Canas]

Lumineth discussion

It actually contains something interesting in the shining company, it might even be balanced. Though I fear it's probably just going to be used during the first turn to make surviving alpha strikes easier and is then quickly dropped in favour of just running around quicker. At least it's interesting and a nice nod to formations. Maybe we'l start seeing some of that return more.

An interesting mechanic in tectonic force that is probably going to be stupidly powerfull.

O, and they're all wizards that can unbind and cast a spell that improves their ability to do mortal wounds. On that note, apparently the entire army can do mortal wounds with their shiny sunmetal weapons on a hitroll of 6 (5+ with their spell succeeds) because of course they can.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Lumineth discussion

It actually contains something interesting in the shining company, it might even be balanced. Though I fear it's probably just going to be used during the first turn to make surviving alpha strikes easier and is then quickly dropped in favour of just running around quicker. At least it's interesting and a nice nod to formations. Maybe we'l start seeing some of that return more.

An interesting mechanic in tectonic force that is probably going to be stupidly powerfull.

O, and they're all wizards that can unbind and cast a spell that improves their ability to do mortal wounds. On that note, apparently the entire army can do mortal wounds with their shiny sunmetal weapons on a hitroll of 6 (5+ with their spell succeeds) because of course they can.

remember that teleportation bridge is still a thing so shining company will stick around much longer then that.

and ya the MW on a 6s to hit is a slap in the face to us. we are just happy to get mw on 6s to wound.(sigh at least no one will be complaining about us soon

 

[Just A Skink]

I know this is totally a sour grapes attitude, but several of the Lumineth features seem like Seraphon features that got given to somebody else... Just like how I think a lot of our themes got swiped by SCE.

EDIT: I just re-read the Lumineth again. Sorry to feed the negativity, but this is laughable. Every unit (from at least a certain sub-caste) is a wizard?!

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I know this is totally a sour grapes attitude, but several of the Lumineth features seem like Seraphon features that got given to somebody else... Just like how I think a lot of our themes got swiped by SCE.

yep the same for poor poor KO a lot of the same things but better

 

[Kilvakar]

Well, at least we know that they'll probably dominate the game for about a year like Tzeentch, OBR and Slaanesh did before them, before getting a nerf that at least brings them back into some semblance of balance...

 

[PabloTho]

I'm withholding judgement on Lumineth until I see a full rule set.

Mortals on 5s to hit seems broken at first but for all we know the spearman have only one attack each, or only hit/wound on 4+/4+.

I mean, given the way GW balancing has been going recently it's pretty unlikely, but dreaming is free I guess.

I also think shining companies is a really cool ability, and would like to see more formation-based stuff like that in other armies.

 

[Canas]

remember that teleportation bridge is still a thing so shining company will stick around much longer then that.

Forgot about that one... still probably means shining company will only stick around on 1-2 units, one that hangs back on their own objective and 1 that advances using the bridge while the majority will probably immeadiatly break formations.

and ya the MW on a 6s to hit is a slap in the face to us. we are just happy to get mw on 6s to wound.(sigh at least no one will be complaining about us soon

It's weird as hell that it's even a freaking army wide one. It's not 1 specific unit, it's everyone that apparently has that. Which is just ridiculous. I mean, the hell is the point of bringing something with a good save like a bastiladon against an army where every single unit spams mortal wounds anyway.

I know this is totally a sour grapes attitude, but several of the Lumineth features seem like Seraphon features that got given to somebody else... Just like how I think a lot of our themes got swiped by SCE.

EDIT: I just re-read the Lumineth again. Sorry to feed the negativity, but this is laughable. Every unit (from at least a certain sub-caste) is a wizard?!

They're only minor wizards though, much like the SCE wizard units that have their 1 selfbuffing spell. Though unlike the SCE they can unbind for some reason.

And yeah, I think the issue is that they're simply adding in far too many factions at this point. Factions end up encrouching on eachothers terrain. We seem to suffer from it fairly badly, but even the SCE seem to suffer from this now with the bonereapers basicly being an undead copy of them. Not to mention their latest chamber of "warrior wizards" now looking like a poor mans version of the Lumineth & shining company and the focus on formations easily being something that would fit with them as well.

I'm withholding judgement on Lumineth until I see a full rule set.

Mortals on 5s to hit seems broken at first but for all we know the spearman have only one attack each, or only hit/wound on 4+/4+.

I mean, given the way GW balancing has been going recently it's pretty unlikely, but dreaming is free I guess.

I also think shining companies is a really cool ability, and would like to see more formation-based stuff like that in other armies.

The issue isn't just mortal wounds on a 5+, it's mortal wounds on a hit of 6+/5+ on every single unit with sunstone weapons. Unless they have utterly attroucious stats otherwise this just screams broken.

 

[Grotpunter]

I know this is totally a sour grapes attitude, but several of the Lumineth features seem like Seraphon features that got given to somebody else... Just like how I think a lot of our themes got swiped by SCE.

EDIT: I just re-read the Lumineth again. Sorry to feed the negativity, but this is laughable. Every unit (from at least a certain sub-caste) is a wizard?!

Just curious, but what exactly are you feeling cheated out of? I read the article and thought it was cool. Is it good or bad? No clue until the whole picture is out there. There are interesting rules, but nothing that seems overwhelmingly negative to play against with no counterplay.

MWs are annoying when you have high save models, but it is much more frustrating to be on the receiving end of high save models when you have no tools to deal with them. It is a fine balance.

I know its like 2 months ago, but think back and think how everyone here and on fb thought the Seraphon tome was utterly trash.

 

[Canas]

Just curious, but what exactly are you feeling cheated out of?

The mechanics shown off fit very well with other existing factions & to an extend are contradictory (why are they combining light-symbolism with earth/mountain-symbolism of all things...). From what's shown it kind of feels as if they've collected all the cool ideas they've had over the last few battletomes and saved them up for these. This is especially noticeable as several of these would fit extremely well with some of the tomes that have recently released (us, ogers & fyreslayers most noticeably)

Shining company is a great example of something that'd fit well with seraphon as we're made out of stardust and literally bleed starlight. It also fits well with SCE as Sigmar's angels who descend upon lightning. The disciplined nature also fits well with both us and the SCE. But for some reason it's given to elves. In general, most of their whole light theme fits with both us and SCE. The only bit that seems to be somewhat uniquely lumineth is their focus on speed & fluidity where we combine it with a primal savagery and the SCE combine it with a more solid formation (though the eart/rock aspect of the lumineth encrouges on the SCE there as well...)

Having them all be wizards makes them the sacrosant chamber on steriods.

Also generally speaking the magic we've seen from them, especially in the leaked battlereport, puts our spell-lores to shame & their guaranteed casts and modifiers put both us and Tzeentch to shame.

Enduring as a rock is weirdly out of place, a faction that focusses on fluidity & light-symbolism suddenly takes on aspects of heavy earth. There's any number of factions on whom this'd fit better. Fyreslayers being the most obvious with their connection with mountainholds, lava etc.

Tectonic force is similarly out of place and would fit much better with a destruction faction like ogers or orruks, or even on fyreslayers.

aetherquartz seem to be a light variant of the bonereapers' command abilities that totally aren't command abilities.

Also, it's yet another super organised army fighting in perfect unison on a (near) subconscious level, much like us, the bonereapers & the SCE.

And that's just the thematic stuff that feels like should be part of other factions. We haven't even gone into how some of that stuff just looks stupidly powerfull and can make you feel cheated for that

MWs are annoying when you have high save models, but it is much more frustrating to be on the receiving end of high save models when you have no tools to deal with them. It is a fine balance.

Giving your entire army, or at least the entire battleline, mortal wounds on a buffeable 6+ to hit does not seem like a "fine balance". That sort of nonsense needs an absolutly ridiculous drawback to be anywhere near balanced.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Giving your entire army, or at least the entire battleline, mortal wounds on a buffeable 6+ to hit does not seem like a "fine balance". That sort of nonsense needs an absolutly ridiculous drawback to be anywhere near balanced.

LOL, Fyreslayers already had this long before Lumineth. One of our strengths remains to this day that you can make an entire army list capable of dealing mortal wounds.

 

[Canas]

LOL, Fyreslayers already had this long before Lumineth. One of our strengths remains to this day that you can make an entire army list capable of dealing mortal wounds.

Don't you just have it on hearthguard berserkers baseline? Not army wide (or at least not armywide permanently)

And as an aside, even if it does already exist, doesn't make it any less ridiculous

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Don't you just have it on hearthguard berserkers baseline? Not army wide (or at least not armywide permanently)

No, Vulkite Berzerkers can deal mortal wounds if they take Bladed Slingshields, Hearthguard Berzerkers can deal mortal wounds if they take Flamestrike Poleaxes and Magmadroths deal a heap of mortal wounds with their Volcanic Blood, Molten Fyrestream and Lashing Tail. It is very easy to build a mortal wound-spam list with the Sons of Grimnir.

What I'm trying to say is that mortal wound spamming has been around for a good long time in AoS, and allowing some armies to do it and other armies to not be able to do it is all part of diversifying the factions. There would be less variety if all or none of the armies were able to spam mortals, and those that can't simply have to make use of their own advantages to try and defeat those that can.

 

[Canas]

No, Vulkite Berzerkers can deal mortal wounds if they take Bladed Slingshields, Hearthguard Berzerkers can deal mortal wounds if they take Flamestrike Poleaxes and Magmadroths deal a heap of mortal wounds with their Volcanic Blood, Molten Fyrestream and Lashing Tail. It is very easy to build a mortal wound-spam list with the Sons of Grimnir.

What I'm trying to say is that mortal wound spamming has been around for a good long time in AoS, and allowing some armies to do it and other armies to not be able to do it is all part of diversifying the factions. There would be less variety if all or none of the armies were able to spam mortals, and those that can't simply have to make use of their own advantages to try and defeat those that can.

Ah like that. That's somewhat different from the lumineth

The issue with the lumineth is that their entire battleline has, by default, a rule where they deal a mortal wound on a 6+ hit (buffeable to at least 5+, maybe we'l get more buffs) when using their sunstone weapons. They don't need to be kited out a specific way like the berserkers. This is just one of their baseline abilities, on battleline on top of whatever other abilities & synergies they'l have.

And of top of that they have plenty of spells to deal mortal wounds. And we've also seen several more elite models that spam additional mortal wounds, baseline. Now that I think about it, at this point I don't think we've seen a single lumineth unit so far that doesn't have baseline acces to mortal wound spam.

Which seems a bit excessive. At least your fyreslayers need to take specific units with specific load-outs. Lumineth seem to just spam them sort of on accident if they do anything at all.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

and remember they have easy acses to a 5+ ward save to a large chunk of their army

 

[Grotpunter]

The mechanics shown off fit very well with other existing factions & to an extend are contradictory (why are they combining light-symbolism with earth/mountain-symbolism of all things...). From what's shown it kind of feels as if they've collected all the cool ideas they've had over the last few battletomes and saved them up for these. This is especially noticeable as several of these would fit extremely well with some of the tomes that have recently released (us, ogers & fyreslayers most noticeably)

Shining company is a great example of something that'd fit well with seraphon as we're made out of stardust and literally bleed starlight. It also fits well with SCE as Sigmar's angels who descend upon lightning. The disciplined nature also fits well with both us and the SCE. But for some reason it's given to elves. In general, most of their whole light theme fits with both us and SCE. The only bit that seems to be somewhat uniquely lumineth is their focus on speed & fluidity where we combine it with a primal savagery and the SCE combine it with a more solid formation (though the eart/rock aspect of the lumineth encrouges on the SCE there as well...)

Having them all be wizards makes them the sacrosant chamber on steriods.

Also generally speaking the magic we've seen from them, especially in the leaked battlereport, puts our spell-lores to shame & their guaranteed casts and modifiers put both us and Tzeentch to shame.

Enduring as a rock is weirdly out of place, a faction that focusses on fluidity & light-symbolism suddenly takes on aspects of heavy earth. There's any number of factions on whom this'd fit better. Fyreslayers being the most obvious with their connection with mountainholds, lava etc.

Tectonic force is similarly out of place and would fit much better with a destruction faction like ogers or orruks, or even on fyreslayers.

aetherquartz seem to be a light variant of the bonereapers' command abilities that totally aren't command abilities.

Also, it's yet another super organised army fighting in perfect unison on a (near) subconscious level, much like us, the bonereapers & the SCE.

And that's just the thematic stuff that feels like should be part of other factions. We haven't even gone into how some of that stuff just looks stupidly powerfull and can make you feel cheated for that


Giving your entire army, or at least the entire battleline, mortal wounds on a buffeable 6+ to hit does not seem like a "fine balance". That sort of nonsense needs an absolutly ridiculous drawback to be anywhere near balanced.

So since alot of this is based off “this doesnt feel right for Aelves” do you have early access to their tome/lore? It has been made clear this isnt just High Elves, but a new take on Elves.

They have alot of cool tricks, some of them very limited. I feel like if it was reversed you would still be whining that Seraphon is shit because buffs are conditional and limited where as Lumineth can just spam CPs to guarantee buffs to every unit.

Our battletome is amazing. So much is viable. Yes you see Kroak and Salamanders in every tournament list currently on TTS, but for 99% of us here, it doesnt actually matter one bit. You can field Saurus Knights and have great success against your mates. As a Seraphon player you really have nothing to complain about.