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AoS NEW *rumor*

Val Muna said:
Furthermore, it was my intention to look at this system as a game, and I even prefaced my text with that intent (not to sound too defensive, FYI only). Looking at the game from a Seraphon PoV and loving every unit, their fluff and the "war-game" aspects of that army is a 100% valid and great way of looking at it. Thing is, that's been done, over and over. I wanted to think out loud and try to look at it from another perspective, and unsurprisingly it ended up producing some unpopular views. Looking at it from a game-focused POV, solely, was the goal in this thought experiment.
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What I meant when saying you looked at it purely as a game is that you're ignoring the fact that it is a specific kind of game, namely a wargame. This already comes with a certain set rules and requirements, as well as giving units certain attributes. Looking at it more merely "a" game instead of a wargame would be ignoring this.

As for Seraphon being different from the average AoS army. Yes AoS saw a move towards less realism alongside a lot of rulesquashing compared to WFB with the loss of things like flanking. Which currently leaves them an odd one out. However, the more recent armies have again moved towards more varied armies with more complex rules as well.


Val Muna said:
Not necessarily, If you have combat roles as generalized and unspecified as the ones i provided; then there are MANY ways to accomplish each role. Take a look at the differences between Grimghast Reapers and Wych Aelves. Both fulfill role (1b) and (2b5) {which isn't in my original list but would include clouds of murderous troops that kill via weight of dice, like the shootums in Blonesplitterz} but do so in very different ways. Or take LoN Skeletons with necro support and compare that to Ard'boyz. Those at first seem to be VERY different, but in the end (once again an objective grabbing game scenario) operate in very similar ways and the generals of each would want each to get stuck in and positioned very similarly. They are weak to different attacks by the enemy of course, but that's the extra bit of individualism that is allowed to shine though in a more unspecified combat role model. But get a 3-attack, rend:-3, dmg:3 big boy swinging at either group, and they'll both take their licks.
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I meant that every army of faction X will play roughly the same as they'l only have acces to the one unit for that intended role (e.g. nighthaunt would only have their Grimghast reapers). That indeed doesn't stop DoK from being different with their wych aelves.
 
I think the idea of Seraphon losing Saururs warriors and Saururs heroes is ridiculous. As in it will never happen.
Seraphon
An army were a giant magical toad contemplates what his army should do. Skinks see to the Slanns needs and the kingdom is running. Saururs are the blade and teeth of the Slann. Kroxigor beast of burden but also of war.

Why would GamesWorkshop take an iconic unit that is already supported with rules and plastic models out of the mix? They don't need Saururs warriors to be the best unit/even good for Seraphon. They flush out the armies identity and add more products to their line.

Yes I know tomb kings were cut and other armies might of had units prunned, but really they are going to take out the unit that has been featured on almost every Seraphon/lizardmen codex?

I think Saururs is our identity. In war games a unit like skinks who can fall back and cost little points, will almost always be more competitive (objectives objectives objectives). This is why you see almost only Skinks and many of the newer Seraphon players have never played in a world where Saururs are a thing to be feared.

I think having the option of running a skink horde army is fine and healthy for variety, but that is not what makes Seraphon.

Honestly I think skinks should lose their ability to retreat and skaven should of adopted that rule instead of spamming mortal wounds.(obviously that's not going to happen)

Edit: I didn't address your idea of trimming armies to fit battle roles. Simply I don't think that's how Games workshop works. They design models then design rules and armies around them. I'm pretty sure Lizardmen were designed around Saururs... not skinks. Armies like tomb king were basically another skeleton army but Egyptian. Yes they had unquie rules and models but Games workshop was tiding up their IP and brand. Tomb kings must not of fit into that. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.
 
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well, in my initial plan, i wouldn't suggest removing Saurus, but rather relegate their role to a higher tier of combatant, i.e. Saurus Guard. Have Skinks and Saurus, but have Saurus be both stronger and more elite than they currently are. whether that means pruning the model or not, whatever i don't know. Removing the blinders of history for a moment, and trying to look at the Seraphon model range in a light that is not so heavily rooted in what they were in WHFB, once could easily re-imagine the Saurus in a role as the sole tier in between Kroxigors and Skinks, without their auxiliary roles as cav and some sort of out of date concept of body guards (I mean, Thunderquake does body guarding well enough and really a pack of 10 skinks can screen off a Slann for ages) . That feels to me more like a hangover from WHFB. Do we need each of those roles explicitly, or would having a 4+sv, 2 wound Saurus <insert whatever name you want here> unit be good enough to fill that middle role? i don't know, just thinking out loud. I only said prune the saurus models mostly cause the saurus guard are the ones that are not webstore exclusive, and have a more elite feel to them. The heroes, well they could be a bit like the Fyreslayer's Runefather, Runeson and Runesmiter (i think that's the three) wherein they are available in flootslogger and mounted-on-biggie forms. i sort of walked that back a bit in my initial post.

WRT Games workshops methodology - yeah i can't speak to that, and I'm sure you're right anyway. It may be that I have already given more thought to this than they have.
 
Val Muna said:
well, in my initial plan, i wouldn't suggest removing Saurus, but rather relegate their role to a higher tier of combatant, i.e. Saurus Guard. Have Skinks and Saurus, but have Saurus be both stronger and more elite than they currently are. whether that means pruning the model or not, whatever i don't know. Removing the blinders of history for a moment, and trying to look at the Seraphon model range in a light that is not so heavily rooted in what they were in WHFB, once could easily re-imagine the Saurus in a role as the sole tier in between Kroxigors and Skinks, without their auxiliary roles as cav and some sort of out of date concept of body guards (I mean, Thunderquake does body guarding well enough and really a pack of 10 skinks can screen off a Slann for ages) . That feels to me more like a hangover from WHFB. Do we need each of those roles explicitly, or would having a 4+sv, 2 wound Saurus <insert whatever name you want here> unit be good enough to fill that middle role? i don't know, just thinking out loud. I only said prune the saurus models mostly cause the saurus guard are the ones that are not webstore exclusive, and have a more elite feel to them. The heroes, well they could be a bit like the Fyreslayer's Runefather, Runeson and Runesmiter (i think that's the three) wherein they are available in flootslogger and mounted-on-biggie forms. i sort of walked that back a bit in my initial post.

WRT Games workshops methodology - yeah i can't speak to that, and I'm sure you're right anyway. It may be that I have already given more thought to this than they have.
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I get what you mean and it's a valid point. I see skinks as our sub battleline. Saururs as the standard battleline and guards as elite. If anything maybe Temple guard are no longer always battleline but that feels like limiting in army roster with little to gain and a lot of fans to anger. I guess my real question is what profit($$$) does GW gain from pruning Seraphon?

I remember reading that they design model first then rules, I know that is fact. Not sure if army identity comes before the model or not tbh( which is what my point was).


Forgetting the past. I still see skinks as the dudes fanning the Slann and making sure our space ships don't crash out of the stars. Their main job within the army is still not to fight. If anything I could see GW more likely remove skinks as battleline(but that brings up the same issue of removing guards as battleline but worse, since Seraphon players tend to lean Saururs or skink).


Edit: I'm really biased BTW. I love Saurus. Saurus=Lizardmen to me. All the skinks just make sure the ball keeps rolling while the Saururs mop up the enemies. It wasn't until Sotek that skinks were really a fighting force, but it's still Saururs that give skaven ptsd not a bunch of pissed off skinks.

Edit 2: I'm realizing we have a lot of "fighting" skinks who ride Dinos, but only the rippers riders are really fighting in the thick of it while the others are more or less directing a dino and throwing stuff from their backs. Without the skinks, as long as they get were they needed to the dinos don't really lose any combat proficiency. All of this makes me see Skinks again as a support unit. Clearly not the backbone of the fighting force. Like in a current AoS fluff battle. Like in a book. Would a slann really go to battle with only a bunch of skinks. I find it really really hard to believe he wouldn't summon a bunch of Saururs to be his troops(since they were bred for war were skinks were not, this is still relevant because the Slann summons them based on memories)
 
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Womboski said:
I still see skinks as the dudes fanning the Slann [...]

Would a slann really go to battle with only a bunch of skinks. I find it really really hard to believe he wouldn't summon a bunch of Saururs to be his troops(since they were bred for war were skinks were not, this is still relevant because the Slann summons them based on memories)
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That depends, am I a Slann that could really use a back rub right about now?
 
slann is an auto-include today, what is really boring. of course slann is the seraphon leader and had the great plan vs the armies of chaos.
But what about the oldblood? The sunblood? why is the general ability for saurus armies so weak? its more of a joke or a " fun to have" thing.
i really would love a alternative for the slann general.
it dont have to a oldblood, give a sunblood some cool options, or maybe a hero kroxigor in an saurus guard armor!
that would be awesome!
skinks as battlelines are fine, but it cant be that we cannot field saurus warriors.
and the behemonths thing:
the opponent should be feared of us, not the other way around!
"Do i really want my demon charge a gigantic dinosaur in close combat?"
thats how it should be!
 
I would be surprised if our summoning does not become more baked into the army and less reliant on the Slann itself. The Slann might as well be a terrain piece at this point, as 90% of the time it is just a conjuration point generator that can also unbind spells. I could imagine the fluff part of the Slann calling in beasts more directly represented by endless spells, time for some show don't tell about how powerful these guys are supposed to be.

A new spell lore will not fix anything by itself, unless summoning and spells are separated. I'd expect a hit to the overall summoning output to compensate if the Slann is suddenly a potent caster instead and/or if Saurus characters actually become viable martial generals, perhaps with less flexibility but more up front oomph, but I guess we will see.

Sigh... it just feels like torture to wait on these book reveals, I caught myself feeling cheated when I saw Sylvaneth getting toys next, come on, they are already rather good, don't skip the line! ;)
 
Hi all,
I found a "first look" video for the May 2019 White Dwarf.


I call out minutes 12:41-13:02. This issue of White Dwarf contains an article about summoning in AoS, which some hope might shed a bit of light on Seraphon. Based on what I saw in the video, the article is just a history of summoning in AoS, and it's development in the game. Not really about where it's headed, short of saying that point costs for summoning may change. There was some stuff written about the difference between pitched battles and matched play that confuses me. But, the article doesn't even seem to mention Seraphon (from what I can read), which I find a bit disheartening. I don't know whether to read anything into that or not.
 
Scurvydog said:
The Slann might as well be a terrain piece at this point,
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Thats a good point they should just discontinue the resin slanns and make a nice squishy slann terrain item :P There army fixed (claps hands)
 
Just A Skink said:
Hi all,
I found a "first look" video for the May 2019 White Dwarf.




I call out minutes 12:41-13:02. This issue of White Dwarf contains an article about summoning in AoS, which some hope might shed a bit of light on Seraphon. Based on what I saw in the video, the article is just a history of summoning in AoS, and it's development in the game. Not really about where it's headed, short of saying that point costs for summoning may change. There was some stuff written about the difference between pitched battles and matched play that confuses me. But, the article doesn't even seem to mention Seraphon (from what I can read), which I find a bit disheartening. I don't know whether to read anything into that or not.
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It was announced that Seraphon are being cut from the core rulebook of the AoS RPG today, so yeah, consider me disheartened.
 
Deynon-Nikus said:
It was announced that Seraphon are being cut from the core rulebook of the AoS RPG today, so yeah, consider me disheartened.
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Well that doesn't bode particularly well. Probably because they want people to buy newer models, because there are more seraphon models in circulation from the old world days, so sales might be lower; who knows though, there are loads of skaven and night goblins out there as well, and they just got new books.
 
Asamu said:
Well that doesn't bode particularly well. Probably because they want people to buy newer models, because there are more seraphon models in circulation from the old world days, so sales might be lower; who knows though, there are loads of skaven and night goblins out there as well, and they just got new books.
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The keyword in there was AoS RPG.
 
A load of us should post on the warhammer Community Facebook page about this. It may make them reveal something or atleast confirm we are not extinct. Worst case they don't answer lol
 
Guys we're not extinct just not a main priority. Each time they sell lizards its pure profit off these molds, certainly the skink and saurus warrior ones at this point anyway :P. We will get stuff coming soon just hang in there with the savage orc players et al.
 
Acrocanth said:
Guys we're not extinct just not a main priority. Each time they sell lizards its pure profit off these molds, certainly the skink and saurus warrior ones at this point anyway :p. We will get stuff coming soon just hang in there with the savage orc players et al.
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Correct! All AoS factions are getting an update with endless spells, terrain, and sometimes even new battletomes. It's already been confirmed. I suspect we'll get a book later this year. Ironjawz, Ko, and Aelves probably need an update more than us.

That being said, 5 factions have gotten updates: Khorne, skaven, Fyreslayers, Flesh eater courts, and Sylvaneth. At this rate, atleast 7 updates and 1 new faction to boot. Plus, there is a rather scaley unsolved rumor engine...

I suspect we'll see an update in the late summer or fall
 
Currently, we are almost guaranteed a new battletome. At this point even for our opponents using the battletome sucks. Last weekend my opponent said “dammit why can’t they just update your battletome so I don’t have to search for stuff on random FAQs and generals handbooks?”. With our out of date warscrolls and all of them needing updates so that they simply make sense with current rules means that we will be worked on, and as they do they will probably update the rest of the faction. My guess or more hope is early summer, so I don’t have to wait until the end of summer and start of school for a new battletome.
 
Say what is the scaly rumor engine you mention? I must see it as these last few weeks I have been dying for any news on a new battletome.
 
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