8th Ed. New player in need of army building help.

[DanBot]

First off i need to say i am brand new to warhammer.

My dad got me a lizardmen box for xmas a few years back on my request. I pretty much forgot it existed till a few months ago when a good friend of mine sold his tomb kings to a co worker. So i mentioned mine, still in it's wraper and at a near nothing price i sold it to him. Later me and that co worker talked non stop about his high elves and tomb king armies untill i couldn't take it anymore and decided to give it another go.

So that co worker had sold my box to his friend that is a pro painter in our area. He builds armies and sells them. My box was just for bits and parts of units for armies he was making for others. Turns out he had built his two armies and ended up with extras. So i bought his extras for something like 90% off.

I like the hobby of it more than the actual playing. So i actually haven't played a full game before (500pt leaderless ltp games). It's been about two months or so since i got the army and that co worker (now friend) has been trying to get me to put a list together. But nor him or me have any idea what goes into a lizardmen army.

So what i'm asking for is a list of 1500-2000pts that consists of mostly what i have (which i think is a good chuck of stuff). And maybe a few basic tips on how to run the army or how to play against high elves and tomb kings. Prefer no named characters.


I've been looking as the lists here but none really seems to fit anywhere near what i have. From the looks of it i need a ton more Saurus Warriors. But anyway here is what i do have.

16 Saurus Warriors with Spears.
16 Saurus Warriors unmodeled
53 basic skinks
4 Krox
1 Slann
2 Stegadon
1 Salamander
2 Razordon
2 Random Skink chiefs
2 Skink priest
1 Skink Command

I am pretty much open to getting anything you'd like to add to the list since i collect for the hobby of it, and i am pretty sure not all of this can fit together into a practical army. But if it is easy to make a good list over 2000pts and i have most of the stuff for it. Go right ahead.

Also having never played anything but the basics of the game i could use tips on the Slann and using/picking magic in general.

 

[Maxus]

A few things that might help to know:

How are the skinks armed, are some with shield/javelin are they with blowpipes (or eve old bows)?

How are the Stegadon modeled? Engine of the gods/great bow/blowpipes?

Are the Salamanders/Razordon have the crew wtih it? (skinks with 2 handed spears)

Do you have the army book/access to the army book?

Just looking at what you own, there are 2 things you will probably end up buying/finding. More Saurus warriors, and Temple Guard to put your Slann in. Slann by themselves or not with Temple Guard don't seem that great to me.

 

[Leokill27]

Well thats a very interesting story of how you got into the hobby, and Welcome to the board!

As for making a 1500 point list, You almost have everything you need.

Sorry if this seems condescending but to make an army list (for any points limit) you have to spend 25% on your core choices. Up to 25% on lords, Up to 25% on heroes, Up to 50% of specials and 3 rare choices

So you need to spend 375 points on core to start with. Now, the main bulk of a Lizardmen army is the Saurus Warrior. Unfortunately 16 is a little on the low side. Two squads of 20 would be ideal, this isnt a problem however as you have Kroxigors.

The other way people build up their core is with Skrox units (Skinks and Kroxigor) Its makes the nimble little skinks a lot more fearsome and have some heavy hitting power. You can add 1 Kroxigor for every 8 skink cohorts. You have 4 kroxigor which is a good number, I would split them into 2 skrox units, with 2 krox in each.

Units of skink skrimishers are amazing as well, just keep them out of combat!

To really use a Slann well you need to have Temple guard to bunker him in, I would advise getting some of them. You can run your slann solo, but you need to take measures to keep him safe (One of the disciplines he gets makes him ethereal so thats a good bet!)

Skink priests are really good too, Lore of heavens is pretty nice. A good build is to make him Lvl 2 and give him the plaque of tepok, that way he has 3 spells to play with

Stegadons are a lot of fun! The ancient is miles better than the normal one, its usually worth spending on it. You could also mount one of the skink heroes you have on it.

Always take salamanders, they are too damn good not to take! Razordons are ok, but you could always proxy as a salamander if you like the model more.



Hope I helped with this rundown of the units, I would definitely advise more Saurus!

Again, Sorry if this seems somewhat condescending!

 

[DanBot]

@Maxus

The only two things i modeled are the skinks and the suarus.

The skinks are ALL old models so I'm not going to worry about what they are holding. I was originally going to use them all blow pipe, because that's what i was told most people consider the bows like the pipes. But since i have Krox and 53 basic skinks and a command unit for them, I've decided on using the skirmishers as blow pipes and the ones in the unit as anything goes. Since i don't plan on going to any event in the near future should be ok for now.

The Saurus are spears. I think i mentioned that. I was told the second rank so spears can attack by my friend so that's what i put on them. Then i've been reading lists hear and people are saying something about parry saves or something and the sword shield being more bang for the buck. But i plan on taking Leo's advice and running two 20 blocks. 1 block of each. I remember seeing that in some lists here. Though they all could have been Leo's.

The stegs, razors, sallie, and even the skink commmand and cheifs are all untouched. I don't have a file or a good set of clippers yet so they are all in their wrapper. I have the book aswell. I read it back to front day one. But only the lizardmen book. I still need 8th edition rules. That's probably why i am so confused when it comes to magic. I know it's all in there. And all the key words i see.

@LeoKill27:

I did plan on getting both the saurus and the temple gaurd in the future. I wouldn't mind adding the saurus to my first list. But I'd like to have a list over the next week or so just to play with. So if need be skip the slann? It'll just get killed and I know nothing about how to use magic. So what is the big disadvantages to running the skinks/krox instead of the suarus? Spears or sword shield? Should i bother getting more saurus atm or run the skink/krox?

The stegadons are completely untouched. They come with a preist and a chief in the stegadon box (so the box says). So i believe i have 2 extra skink priests and 2 extra chiefs. I read a tip somewhere that the draw back to skink/krox was people just kill the krox right off the bat and it leaves a unit of skinks. So the tip was add a hero to the unit to give the other player another target to posibly pick over the krox. Bad idea to run two units 15 skins + cheif and two krox? Full command posibly. I have skink command. I'm unclear on the rules. Is it possible to add another skink cheif to the stegadon or add two to the krox/skinks, or could i add an ancient krox and a skink cheif?

 

[Leokill27]

I would say yeah, skip the slann for the moment.

The disadvantages of skrox, to me seems to be easy combat res for the enemy, skinks are T2, which means they tend to melt at the touch of anything, You have to work hard to flank with them.


Ill repost in a while, Its been a long night!

 

[cammy]

im not a fan of Skrox unit i know a lot of people on here are but to me the skinks give up to much combat res and die quickly leaving the krox pretty useless and unless you have a huge amount there are not enough krox, i prefer using 6 Krox as a unit where i can afford it, even 3 is not bad

 

[Maxus]

@Maxus

The only two things i modeled are the skinks and the suarus.

The skinks are ALL old models so I'm not going to worry about what they are holding. I was originally going to use them all blow pipe, because that's what i was told most people consider the bows like the pipes. But since i have Krox and 53 basic skinks and a command unit for them, I've decided on using the skirmishers as blow pipes and the ones in the unit as anything goes. Since i don't plan on going to any event in the near future should be ok for now.

Yep, if you have the skinks with bows, folks will treat them like pipes, since bows are not an option. It shouldn't be a problem using them in a unit with the Krox, it is pretty unmistakable what they are.

The Saurus are spears. I think i mentioned that. I was told the second rank so spears can attack by my friend so that's what i put on them. Then i've been reading lists hear and people are saying something about parry saves or something and the sword shield being more bang for the buck. But i plan on taking Leo's advice and running two 20 blocks. 1 block of each. I remember seeing that in some lists here. Though they all could have been Leo's.

Spears are useable in an extra rank, if you don't charge. If you get charged, or in the second round of a combat you can fight in an extra rank with spears. If you have the hand weapon/shield combo, you get a parry save of 6+ from the front if you are in combat (you don't get a parry save vs. flank attacks, rear attacks, impact, and stomp hits). If you have spears equipped, you cannot use the hand weapon/shield combo (even though they come with it) so you don't get the 6+ ward save. The changes to 8th say if you have a 'special weapon' use that option, and do not switch around.

The stegs, razors, sallie, and even the skink commmand and cheifs are all untouched. I don't have a file or a good set of clippers yet so they are all in their wrapper. I have the book aswell. I read it back to front day one. But only the lizardmen book. I still need 8th edition rules. That's probably why i am so confused when it comes to magic. I know it's all in there. And all the key words i see.

Best thing you can do also, is proxy stuff, see what you like. Proxy some saurus as temple guard and run them with the slann, see how it works. Play around with it, and see what you like before 'finalizing' your models.

 

[DanBot]

Best thing you can do also, is proxy stuff, see what you like. Proxy some saurus as temple guard and run them with the slann, see how it works. Play around with it, and see what you like before 'finalizing' your models.

Yeah, I'll end up using proxies the first time i play. My army wont be anywhere near done for a long long time. The only problem i have with proxing and testing is, I'm bran new. The I need to adjust myself to the lizardmen play style before i adjust my army to suit me better. Know what i mean? I can't trust myself to pick and choose inteligently what I should be playing without first getting the basics of the game down and then the basics of the lizardmen.

I have a list that I am working on getting together by thrusday (my first game if i can get them put together enough to play).

1500pts 0 pts left over.
50.27%core|14.67%special|24.4% Heros|10.67% Rare

I think those are the numbers. I'm not sure it the Krox in a unit or skinks are considered core. I did not count them as core. But that would be a nice advantage to putting them in a unit of skink if they are concidered core.

Core:
16 Saurus warriors w/ spear and full command
16 Saurus warriors w/cc and full command
16 Skinks +2 Krox full command
16 Skinks +2 Krox
10 Skink Skirmishers w/ blowpipe and brave
10 Skink Skirmishers w/ blowpipe and brave

Heros:
Skink Chief
w/ Talsman of Protection
Enchanted Shield
Burning blade of Chotec

Skink Chief
w/ Sacred Stegadib Helm

Skink Priest
w/ Dispell Scroll
Diaden of Power

Rare:
1 Salamander hunting pack +1 skink
1 Razordon huning pack +1 skink

Here are the thinks I am pretty sure i messed up on and need help fixing.
1. 2 krox in a unit of skinks. I'm guessing this will make for a very weak unit.
2. My hero's equiptment. I really don't know what i'm doing as far as equptment. I put a sword and sheild on one. Even though with a magic sword they don't get the parry save. THe shield gives an armor save though. Worth it?
3. I added +1 skink to the Razordon hunting pack. I haven't seen them in many lists and never with an extra skink. Is that bad?

 

[Leokill27]

With Razordons and salamanders (take salamanders!) its always recommended to take another snack, an unlucky misfire could see a hungry guy kill all his handlers and sit about doing nothing for a game

 

[Taipan]

16 Saurus Warriors with Spears.
16 Saurus Warriors unmodeled

You need another box of these, maybe two. The reason being is that while 40 Saurus (2 x 20-man blocks) is enough for Core, you need Temple Guard if you field a Slann. Instead of shelling out for the actual box, just model up a cheaper box of Saurus. They'll attract of lot of attention, so 19 strong minimum (when you add the Slann+tooled up Scar-Vet bodyguard, the displacement creates a 6x4 unit structure) 25 ideally (giving you a 6x5 unit structure).

53 basic skinks

4 x 10 Skink Skirmisher units with blowpipes to support your Saurus and TG units against big monsters (pepper them with darts until they drop). The remaining guys you can use as Camo Skinks (blowpipe Skinks in Special that can Scout and shoot a bit better, making them warmachine/wizard snipers).

4 Krox

When buffed by magic they can get pretty nasty, but then so can Saurus as well. Give them a go, I personally prefer more Saurus, but they are strong fighters and tough.

1 Slann

You'll wanna give some thought to the Lore he selects (get the rulebook and read each Lore carefully), and to his magical items. There isn't much you can do wrong with him though, he's a powerful caster and when combined with Temple Guard he forms a powerful core to the army (excellent choice for General and BSB, which a trick other armies can't pull off easily).

2 x Stegadon

One should probably be made into an EOTG. It's an easy way to sneak another Ancient Steg into the list without chewing up points in Rare, the 5+ ward aura is awesome, and you get a decent support caster in the Skink Priest. Expensive, but like the Slann+TG combo, it'll provide solid support to your army. Due to the army percentages restrictions, you can only field one of these usually.
The other Steg should probably be a regular one (he lives in Special, not Rare), to give you a powerful counter-charger, and a decent bolt thrower for killing monsters and smashing up heavy infantry (the giant bow on it's back). The Ancient Steg eats up Rare points and the blowpipes it carries are sorta redundant when you have plenty of cheap blowpipe Skinks.

1 Salamander
2 Razordon

Try and count-as with the Razordons, the Salamander is a much better fit for the army (S4 shooting is nice but flaming templates that -3 to armour is the bane of cavalry units like Knights).

2 Random Skink chiefs
2 Skink priest
1 Skink Command

Can't really do much with the Skink Chiefs, they suck in combat and bring nothing to the army it doesn't already have (Chief can take a Steg as a mount but EOTG does the same thing with further benefits)
Skink Priests are useful as additional casters, to give you access to all the Heavens spells (between them+EOTG you'll know them all, provided you take Level 2 upgrades). You probably only need one though, with Cloak of Feathers so he can zoom around and extend the reach of magic missiles cast by the Slann.
Skink Command is sorta pointless, blowpipe Skirmishers are all they're really good for.

So, for expanding, you'll want a couple more Salamanders, and two more boxes of Saurus. The rest can be modified to build pretty much any army you want.

 

[DanBot]

@Taipan

That is a ton of useful information. I appreciate it. I was told temple gaurds have a ton of useful bits. So I plan on getting a box of them when i decide to run my Slann. Also i don't like that scar vets GW sells. So I'll have to make one of them into a vet. So i guess two boxes of them plus a scar vet. So that'll be 19+ slann.

If you did run the Krox would you put them in a unit of skink? And if so would you through a skink chief in with them. That was my plan. Not sure how that'll go though.

I never heard anything about these ward saves on stegs, but it sounds awesome. So EOTG gives a 5+? and a cheif on a steg does the same? Should i take both?

 

[zenoren]

I highly suggest getting a Lizardmen Army Book when you get the chance.

I never heard anything about these ward saves on stegs, but it sounds awesome. So EOTG gives a 5+? and a cheif on a steg does the same? Should i take both?

The Engine of the Gods (which is an upgrade to a Skink Priest) is an Ancient Stegadon with some awesome abilities. No shooting weapons (unless you count the crew with javelins) but the fun magic stuff makes up for it. Probably the most useful of the abilities is the 5+ ward save against ranged attacks however remember that there is a distance clause in there.

 

[DanBot]

I highly suggest getting a Lizardmen Army Book when you get the chance.

I never heard anything about these ward saves on stegs, but it sounds awesome. So EOTG gives a 5+? and a cheif on a steg does the same? Should i take both?

The Engine of the Gods (which is an upgrade to a Skink Priest) is an Ancient Stegadon with some awesome abilities. No shooting weapons (unless you count the crew with javelins) but the fun magic stuff makes up for it. Probably the most useful of the abilities is the 5+ ward save against ranged attacks however remember that there is a distance clause in there.

I have both books. The war hammer book and the lizardmen book. I read the Lizardmen book back to front, but I've never even played a game. It's a lot of information to try and remember having no basic knowledge of the game. I hardly even know what ward saves are. Probably another stupid question but he said "Chief can take a Steg as a mount but EOTG does the same thing with further benefits". Is it impractical to bring them both on two seperate stegs? Waste of points?

 

[zenoren]

"Chief can take a Steg as a mount but EOTG does the same thing with further benefits". Is it impractical to bring them both on two seperate stegs? Waste of points?

It is hard to bring both because they are both expensive and take up the same slot (Heros). There are pros and cons to both... The bad thing about any Stegadon, is that a cannonball in the face can take it out in a single shot.

Chief on a Steg is really cool because you can take the Stegadon War-Spear (magic weapon in the Lizardmen book). This increases your impact hits to 2d6+1 rather than 1d6+1. Also, because it is a Lance, it gives +2 str to the bearer (the chief, not the steg) on the charge. If it is mounted on an Ancient Stegadon, then that makes it 2d6+1 Str 6 hits, 3 Str 6 attacks at Initiative 6 (Chief), 4 Str 3 attacks at Initiative 4 (Crew), 3 Str 6 attacks at Initiative 1 (Ancient Steg), and then 1d6 Str 6 Thunderstomps. Very powerful from one single unit. It does also cost around 380 points.

Skink Priest on an Engine of the Gods is nice because the magic abilities of the Engine cannot be stopped. You just have to remember which one you are using and you have to check ranges to see what's the most useful ability to use. This can get expensive because you can drop nearly 150 points on the Priest and the engine still costs nearly double that. Yes, you still get lots of Str 6 hits/attacks with the EOTG because it is an Ancient Stegadon, but your priest is not as good of a fighter and is easily singled out in combat. His 2+ armor save should keep him relatively safe but not for long.

The abilities that the EOTG has are very good.

5+ ward save against shooting to all your units within 12" of it, as long as the shots are starting 12" away from the EOTG. Basically think of it like the Bubble Shields from Star Wars Ep 1. If the enemy is already inside the shield, it doesn't work.

The next one is d6 Str 4 hits with no armor saves to all enemy units within 2d6" of the EOTG. Strength goes up by one if it hits Undead, Daemons or Forest Spirits. This one is useful if you've charged or are in combat since the enemy will already be inside the bubble.

The last ability has come in very useful in Storm of Magic games. It reduces the casting value for all spells of one Lore for one turn. Have a lot of Lore of Life spells? Use it and Throne of Vines goes off on a 7+ now instead of an 8+. Granted this helps your opponent too if they have the same Lore and it only works on the 8 Lores from the basic rulebook.