8th Ed. New Player - 1000 vs DE

[Lindel]

A few months ago I posted a prototype list here, and it's changed quite a bit since then based on feedback from the community. I now offer a new and improved list of exactly 1000 points for critiques. I'm trying to keep this on a rather tight budget, hence why I'm starting with a 1000 pointer and not busting out on Slann and Stegadons quite yet.

10 Skink Skirmishers
-Lustrian Javelins and Spears
20 Saurus Warriors
-Standard Bearer
-Spears
18 Saurus Warriors
-Standard Bearer
-Spears
x2 Salamander Hunting Packs
-Extra Handler
5 Chameleon Skinks
Skink Priest
-Lore of Beasts
-Lvl 2
-Dispel Scroll
Saurus Scar-Veteran
-Mounted on Cold One
-Light Armor
-Dawnstone
-Great Weapon

My usual opponent runs Dark Elves, so the list is designed mainly with his army in mind. The Skink Priest would be bunkered in the Skink Skirmisher block, and I'd probably run the Salamanders on the flanks. The Chameleon Skinks would pick off Wizards and Witch Elves, and the like from behind. The Scar-Vet cowboy would run around and whack stuff. I don't have a strong method for dealing with War Hydras at the moment, but I've heard that a block of Saurus is capable of it if they get the charge, especially if they're helped out by Skinks.

One last thing. Would you guys recommend Lustrian Javelins or Blowpipes for the Skirmishers? I've heard people argue for both. When it come to helping take down a Hydra, which would you suggest?

Anyway, thanks for looking. Critiques/comments/suggestions welcome!

 

[NexS1]

I wouldn't exactly call 10 Skinks a bunker. One thing I did notice was that it minimalises the destruction a miscast would cause. Which is handy.

A few questions:
1: Why no Champion and Musician with your saurus units?
1.1: Why only 18 models in the second unit? are you just running three ranks of 6?
2.: Which heavy armour are you buying for your scar-vet? Keeping in mind that it has to be magic armour (LM book gives no mundane heavy armour option)?

Cheers.

 

[Izzetmaster]

One last thing. Would you guys recommend Lustrian Javelins or Blowpipes for the Skirmishers? I've heard people argue for both. When it come to helping take down a Hydra, which would you suggest?

Anyway, thanks for looking. Critiques/comments/suggestions welcome!

I would recommend Lustrian Javelins on the skirmishers. Missing out on the Multiple Shots means nothing in terms of damage output due to less negative modifiers on shooting. Better effective range with Quick to Fire and the shield gives a better armor save.

In my mind, there is never a situation where you would want Blowpipes over Lustrian Javelins on Skink Skirmishers.

Moving on, just a few things wrong with your army list in terms of legality. Scar-Vets cannot take Heavy Armor, and Skink Skirmishers do not take spears with the Lustrian Javelins. The javelins come with shields.

A lone Cowboy running around on a Cold One seems threatening with the S7 attacks and rerollable armor save, but without a bus to run with, he will most likely die quickly to high strength, multiple wound shooting like Bolt Throwers, or be singled out with spells. You can stuff him in the 18 Saurus Warrior block until you get close and unleash him.

Since you're on a tight budget, I'm assuming you're fielding what you have. In that case, I would say the army looks fine. Personally, I would only run with one block of Saurus Warriors, but that's just me. If your opponent commonly fields fair sized infantry blocks, I think the Saurus will do fine with spears. With that being said, if you're going to keep the cowboy in the block of 18, I would try to drop points somewhere else in order to upgrade one to a Spawn Leader to buffer challenges that might come your way.

Keep the skirmishers with the Skink Priest in range to cast Wyssan's on the Saurus. If you get lucky-ish and roll The Savage Beast of Horrors, that's always fun with the cowboys.

As far as what is better against a Hydra? The answer certainly isn't Skink Skirmishers, at least not by themselves. Scaly Skin of 4+ will block a fair amount of wounds, even with poison, unless your opponent walked in front of a black cat underneath a ladder earlier in the day. Your best bet against his Hydra is to Scout your Chameleon Skinks behind him, unleash a flurry of Blowpipe shots, hope for the best, and somehow cheese your Scar-Vet all the way into charge range without dying first. It seems bleak, but that's because Hydras are pretty scary units.

Of course, the other option is to muck the Hydra up in CC with your big unit of Saurus, as you pointed out in your commentary. It would need to be weakened a bit by shooting, so the earlier comments about Chameleon Skinks apply as well as Skink Skirmishers getting a round of shooting in at close range and fleeing if the Hydra charges them. If you're keeping the Saurus as close behind as possible, you could get a nice flank exposure and ram the unit into it.

I hope I offered some insight for you, man. Let us know how the fighting goes.

 

[Lindel]

I wouldn't exactly call 10 Skinks a bunker. One thing I did notice was that it minimalises the destruction a miscast would cause. Which is handy.

A few questions:
1: Why no Champion and Musician with your saurus units?
1.1: Why only 18 models in the second unit? are you just running three ranks of 6?
2.: Which heavy armour are you buying for your scar-vet? Keeping in mind that it has to be magic armour (LM book gives no mundane heavy armour option)?

Cheers.

That's a fair point, it's not exactly a bunker. Really just a place to make sure he gets a LOS save, but the unit is small, so a miscast isn't as disastrous.

1: The Champion's one extra attack just didn't seem worth the extra points at this level. Musician, same thing.
1.1: Points. I originally had 20, but due to some modifications, I ran out of room and decided to pull two Saurus. I suppose I could compensate somewhere else, though.
2: Lemme check. Sorry, that's meant to be light armor, my bad.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Lindel]

Moving on, just a few things wrong with your army list in terms of legality. Scar-Vets cannot take Heavy Armor, and Skink Skirmishers do not take spears with the Lustrian Javelins. The javelins come with shields.

I hope I offered some insight for you, man. Let us know how the fighting goes.

Sorry, I meant javelins and shields and Light Armor. Excellent suggestion for the Scar-Vet, thanks!

I really appreciate your thoughtful, in-depth feedback!

I actually haven't even bought the army yet. You're right, since I'm on a tight budget, I'll be fielding basically everything I've got. I don't want to buy a unit I won't be using, so I decided to make all the final adjustments before purchasing anything. It might still be months before I can actually buy the army, but I'll be sure to let you know how it goes when I do! Thanks again!

 

[NexS1]

I wouldn't exactly call 10 Skinks a bunker. One thing I did notice was that it minimalises the destruction a miscast would cause. Which is handy.

A few questions:
1: Why no Champion and Musician with your saurus units?
1.1: Why only 18 models in the second unit? are you just running three ranks of 6?
2.: Which heavy armour are you buying for your scar-vet? Keeping in mind that it has to be magic armour (LM book gives no mundane heavy armour option)?

Cheers.

That's a fair point, it's not exactly a bunker. Really just a place to make sure he gets a LOS save, but the unit is small, so a miscast isn't as disastrous.

1: The Champion's one extra attack just didn't seem worth the extra points at this level. Musician, same thing.
1.1: Points. I originally had 20, but due to some modifications, I ran out of room and decided to pull two Saurus. I suppose I could compensate somewhere else, though.
2: Lemme check. Sorry, that's meant to be light armor, my bad.

Thanks for the feedback!

The Champion isn't just for the extra attack. A champion can issue and accept challenges in place of characters and can sometimes be handy when you want to keep your characters out of a challenge. Musicians also give you the ability to swift reform and gives you +1 to rally. Both are worth the 10 points you spend

 

[NexS1]

I would recommend Lustrian Javelins on the skirmishers. Missing out on the Multiple Shots means nothing in terms of damage output due to less negative modifiers on shooting. Better effective range with Quick to Fire and the shield gives a better armor save.

In my mind, there is never a situation where you would want Blowpipes over Lustrian Javelins on Skink Skirmishers.

That's not always true. As far as shooting goes, you take skinks for their poison, so as long as you're in short range the multi shot is better than javs. against high toughness things, you get more bang for your buck with these guys.

That being said, I usually take javs

(sorry for the double post)

 

[Izzetmaster]

That being said, I usually take javs

(sorry for the double post)

Because Lustrain Javelins are better.

If you're in short range and the enemy isn't in any sort of cover, then yes indeed Blowpipes are better. 20 shots will always be better than 10. But that's a situation you may not always want to be nor will you always find yourself in, for numerous reasons.

I suppose I could amend my original statement to say that Lustrian Javelins are a better GENERAL choice. They outperform Blowpipes in more situations due to Quick to Fire and their accompanying shield. But, if you know you like to run your Skink Skirmishers into the enemy full bore and are not afraid of them being so close to the enemy, then Blowpipes rule.

 

[Lindel]

The Champion isn't just for the extra attack. A champion can issue and accept challenges in place of characters and can sometimes be handy when you want to keep your characters out of a challenge. Musicians also give you the ability to swift reform and gives you +1 to rally. Both are worth the 10 points you spend

Initially I wasn't going to run a character in the Saurus block anyway, but since I'll probably be sticking the Scar-Vet in there, I might want to find some way to free up those 10 points. The musicians are also helpful, but where can I spare points? Should I just cut one of the Saurus blocks as Izzetmaster suggested?

 

[lordkingcrow]

Some might disagree, but maybe give your scar vet ASF. I fight elves on a regular basis and it's really disheartening when one of my hitters dies before he can deal some damage.

 

[Lindel]

Some might disagree, but maybe give your scar vet ASF. I fight elves on a regular basis and it's really disheartening when one of my hitters dies before he can deal some damage.

I don't have any points to spare unless I cut something. I may cut the second block of Saurus, but I don't know how I'd fill that 200 point gap if I do.

 

[Eladimir]

You can gain 10 points by dropping the dawnstone for a dragon helm and a luckstone.
Saves 10 points and you have a 1+ armor save and a 2+ save vs flaming cannons and searing doom.

The musician is definitely worth it

Also someone might of asked before HW/S way better than spears at 18 guys.

 

[Sebbs]

I would cut the smaller saurus block loose, and maybe add a few to the other block for more staying power (5x5 or 6x4+1). This leaves you open to adapt your ranks and files based on what he deploys to either max out attacks or just go deep. Plus you can get one more unit of skirmishers, or two

The Lvl2 skink + scar-vet combo adds up to 260pts which is above 25%. Maybe lose the level and you can bling the scar-vet some more. Like lordkingcrow said Sword of Swift Slaying for ASF might not be the completely wrong, it will stop the elves from re-rolling to hit and S5 is enough to wound on +2 and remove most of the core AS. LA+shield and Cold one takes you down to +1 AS and dawnstone for re-roll. (Watch out for executioners, killing blow will slay him, dawnstone or not)
Skink priest + dispel scroll and the scar-vet adds up to exactly 250pts.

(On the fence with replacing the dawnstone for glittering scales, equally the ASF for the +1 to hit in CC to minimize wiffing important to hit, hmm )

The salamanders will likely be your biggest asset when it comes to psychological warfare, T3 elves fear those and rightfully so They will be attracting a lot of magic missiles and shooting.

In either case, all these options are the same as your other list so when you get the models you can use any combination


These are my 2-cents:

Heroes (250)
Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Skink Priest
LVL1, Dispel Scroll

Core (515)
25x Saurus Warrior
Spears, Spawn Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician

3x10 Skink Skirmisher
Javelin + Shield

Special
5x Chameleon Skinks

Rare (168)
2x Salamander
2x Additional Handlers

Total: 998pts

/Sebbs

 

[NexS1]

Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Dawnstone is 25 points and ASF sword is 35 points. Too much for a scar vet

 

[Sebbs]

Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Dawnstone is 25 points and ASF sword is 35 points. Too much for a scar vet

Are you sure? Both pigmar.co.uk and my Battlescribe resp. says 25pts for the Sword of Swift Slaying

Maybe you are thinking of Fencers Blades?

/Sebbs

 

[Pinktaco]

Which elfs/units are you thinking about putting your scar vet up against? The only ones I would fear are white lions and they don't have ASF due to GW anyway.

 

[NexS1]

Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Dawnstone is 25 points and ASF sword is 35 points. Too much for a scar vet

Are you sure? Both pigmar.co.uk and my Battlescribe resp. says 25pts for the Sword of Swift Slaying

Maybe you are thinking of Fencers Blades?

/Sebbs

Haha yeah, I was actually thinking about anti heroes... My mistake..

I use anti heroes a lot with my elves!

 

[Lindel]

Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Dawnstone is 25 points and ASF sword is 35 points. Too much for a scar vet

If I'm cutting the smaller Saurus block, I could swap the Scar-Vet for an Oldblood, but it'd exceed the 25% for Lords with the Dawnstone and sword.

 

[Lindel]

Which elfs/units are you thinking about putting your scar vet up against? The only ones I would fear are white lions and they don't have ASF due to GW anyway.

My friend doesn't run a lot of monsters. The only thing he's got besides infantry and cavalry is the Hydra at the moment.

 

[Lindel]

The Lvl2 skink + scar-vet combo adds up to 260pts which is above 25%.

You're right, my bad.

In either case, all these options are the same as your other list so when you get the models you can use any combination

Thanks for taking that into account!

These are my 2-cents:

Heroes (250)
Saurus Scar Veteran
Dawnstone, Sword of Swift Slaying, Cold One, Light Armour, Shield

Skink Priest
LVL1, Dispel Scroll

Core (515)
25x Saurus Warrior
Spears, Spawn Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician

3x10 Skink Skirmisher
Javelin + Shield

Special
5x Chameleon Skinks

Rare (168)
2x Salamander
2x Additional Handlers

Total: 998pts

/Sebbs

That looks great! Thanks for taking the time to help me out on this, I'll definitely take these suggestions into my list.