8th Ed. New ideas for Liz rules

[Raiderbas]

I was wondering about what other people thought of my opinion: Lizardmen needs more artillery.

Maybe I could talk with some of you about that. It's a problem when having a small army and you need some artillery, you only can add a Stegadon, which costs 275 p, or some salamanders. Why the army doesn't have any real artillery with bows and catapults?

Post!

 

[n810]

Probaly because large long range autilary doesn't work well in the thick jungle.

 

[hellbreaker]

Also consider WoC, who share a similar army setup with Lizardmen.
They're very strong in Close combat. (Lizardmen aren't as much, but strong none the less)
They're strong in Magic. (Lizardmen are also strong in Magic, in some cases stronger)
They're terrible at shooting. Hellcannon+Marauder horsemen=WoC range non-magic support.

In the case of shooting Lizardmen are way stronger than WoC. True, the Hellcannon is in all rights still a cannon, but it's essentially a Stegadon with a cannon instead of Bolt thrower/blow pipes. Skinks outclass Horsemen any day, point for point and Skinks also have Poison.
WoC's main advantage to Lizardmen is that they're more durable, and stronger in Close combat. But in shooting they fail so horribly that it should make you go 'why are you even bothering to shoot at me?' and charge.
Ever seen a unit of theirs practically melt away in front of your very eyes? With non-magical shooting? I have only done so when they have been shot by Cannons, or Salamanders. The latter also has the advantage of auto-provoking a morale check.

I'm afraid adding more artillery to Lizardmen risks breaking them.

Cheers!

 

[Walgis]

i would say we need more troops, we need more interesting stuff, not posibly ultra tough or something but fun to play with. something like exploding toads
snakemen ho gets out of a tunel similar to scorpions:
http://www.wow-europe.com/shared/wow-com/images/info/encyclopedia/articles/naga.jpg

normaly priced stegadons (just compare them to HPA or hydra LOL)
normaly costed and more variaty of special chars.
lots and lots of magical items!!! why the F skaven has more magical items then the oldest rase :S
acid spitter would be nice, someone mentioned aout them in forrum.
skinks with bows would be cool.

and last but not least LORE OF WATTER/TECTONIC (some spell that could move terrain or make new in battle)/ICE (i find a need of it because yetees in ogres are imune to them ut theres no ice lore )

 

[Grey Mage]

Fix Kroxigor. Extra tough saurus are not needed to build temple cities.

A Racial Lore. Dispell Magic was not a substitue, and becalming less so.

More magical items- we used to have rules to allow us more, yet we are more restricted in magical weaponry than most races many times over.

A small decrease in the price for regular steggies, and saurus cav.

WS 4 on Saurus. A saurus warrior with 300 years of combat experience should not be comparable to imperial militia.

I want to be able to use shortbows on my skinks again. They cant move and shoot like javies, they cant double tap like blow pipes, but they have a longer range. I think thats a fair tradeoff.

And perhaps let a skink priest fly on a terradon.

Allow Slann to count as large target generals- they are so revered *and so expensive* it would make sense. That and floating above their unit makes them as easy to see as riding a dragon.

And while I miss the days where my salamanders were useful anti-battery fire I know theyre long gone. Magic, Terradons, and Skinks kill warmachines now.

 

[rammramm]

Running the risk of being a buzzkill I will side with hellbreaker and say that the lack of artillary is simply a part of the lizardman army and will not and should not change.

For the rest of the ideas I would love to have our own magical lore and to make the kroxigors stronger, but is that realy a sane demand to make.

When most forums list the best armies in the game LM are right up in the top with skavens and WoC amongst others. We have a very strong army with a fair amount of fun troops (that noone plays CoC or razordon is not the army books fault, its their own will to win). To complain that a slann or a saurus (two of the strongest and most viable models in the game) ought to be better is just asking for too much in my opinion.

For ws4 we need to add a point to the saurus. For large inspiring pressence we need to add a bucketload of points to the slann since he is allready a combined general/BsB with LD 10 in a coldblooded army.

I think a lot of things would be fun to have and i will welcome change in the new book. but when you cry oout for better models you need to realise that the points will rise with the quallity.

Finally i would like to see a viable alternative to saurus in CC. Saurus and TG are expensive and skink cohorts cant keep up. Want something in between like a saurus spawnling. Only 20 years of age they are sent out with lower scaly skin and lower toughness and without the ld that they have now. Land it on 8-9 points and I would be thrilled.
I Know that this might sound contradictory to what I just posted but a man can dream cant he .

 

[walach]

personally, i would just like to see more units available. maybes it's my imagination, but other armies seem to have way more units to pick from.

 

[Walgis]

oh and i would like to see more monsters that is carnosaur hunting pack, as i said exploding toads and etc.
oh and for the weaker sauruses i would say just spawned sauruses with no weapon (just hands and claws) S4, T4 no shields only scaly skon meiby ot weaker 6+. Frenzied (too show new born thrist of lood)

 

[lizardninja]

More magical items- we used to have rules to allow us more, yet we are more restricted in magical weaponry than most races many times over.

Don't forget to mention banners we have terrible banner choices

 

[MasterSlann]

i agree that we need more banners. the current selection isn't nearly large enough... compared to the highelves which have a host of banners to choose from, we pale in comparison

 

[novatomato]

Hang on a moment about the magic banners. First of all, how many of our units can take magic banners? Two, one of which, it would seem, is rarely taken anymore (myself and a few others excluded). The second is only taken once and only under certain circumstances.
We can get one BSB banner in as well, so we pretty much will only have two magic banners in the army. So, either we need more units that are worthwhile taking that can take a magic banner if we want a larger selection, or we just need to overhaul the selection and take out a few of the poorer selections and replace them with better choices.
As it stands currently though, the mix of banners in our army book and the Big Book are enough for any lizardman general.

But seriously, S4 T4 Kroxigors? C'mon GW what the hell were you thinking? Fix those and I would say the book is absolutely fine.

 

[Sao]

and last but not least LORE OF WATTER/TECTONIC (some spell that could move terrain or make new in battle)/ICE (i find a need of it because yetees in ogres are imune to them ut theres no ice lore )

I am sorry dear sir but there IS an ice lore (albet absolutely pants).

Kislev Army Book. Now I'm sure mine is kicking around somewhere.

Lloyd

 

[novatomato]

As this came up in a separate thread I would like to put it out here as well.
Cold One Cav Champs getting a magic item, 25 points or less, would be a massive boon to this unit.
Also One Saurus Warrior unit or Skink cohort in the army can take a magic standard worth up to fifty points. These two things are not game breaking but are things that can be seen quite frequently throughout other army books and would give us a few more options in how to go about making our lists without changing the feel of the army.
Just those two there along with maybe a skink Lord, and a Krox hero (mainly for poops and giggles).

 

[jfoster]

There is a Skink Lord in the form of Tenehuain. Personally I would like to see more of the predators of the jungle we keep reading about, Thunderlizards being the big one. Also a cross between Krox and Tyranid Ravener would be interesting. Also Turtles from the Turtle isles are an option

 

[Arli]

LoL, I like the idea of turtles. But on a lighter note, what would the initiative of a turtle be? -3? Or go the other way. Lustrian Turtle of DOOM. I10, ASF, Terror... the visuals are cool.

 

[Sao]

Probally strike last and once. However your entire army are now saurus under they control of the turtle. Is not a broken ability at all. And oh they are core choices haha

But seriously some new creatures would be nice. And 25 pts magic banner on all saurus unit would be good. Like VC for example and pretty much every other race. Christ we do have the ARTIFACT army!

Lloyd

 

[jfoster]

It would have to be I1 haha but it would be super resilient with high toughness and some sort of ability were it can retreat into its shell and shrug off wounds but cant move next turn etc it would also have a snap! attack were it uses its powerful jaw to snap a man sized model in half killing it instantly, something like that is what I was thinking

 

[Clockwork]

Hypno-toad.

Seriously some more unit variation would be nice.

 

[jfoster]

and last but not least LORE OF WATTER/TECTONIC (some spell that could move terrain or make new in battle)/ICE (i find a need of it because yetees in ogres are imune to them ut theres no ice lore )

I am sorry dear sir but there IS an ice lore (albet absolutely pants).

Kislev Army Book. Now I'm sure mine is kicking around somewhere.

Lloyd

There is indeed a Lore of Ice which can be found in Warhammer Armies: Kislev. A free Army book given away (yes GW used to actually give you stuff, for free) with an issue of White Dwarf. At 34 pages it was fully 1/3 the size of the current LM book and that was for nothing!

The Lore of Ice
The Magic of the Frost Mages
Shardstorm
Freezing Blast
Form of the Frostfiend
Invocation of the Ice Storm
Midwinter's Kiss
Glacial Barrier

Dont want to say anymore due to the rules on posting point values, stats, actual rules etc but taken from the back page of Warhammer Armies: Kislev.
P.S. Sorry for going kind of off topic but thought some of you might like to know

 

[hellbreaker]

Mass of colour is hurting my eyes. Just to let you all know!
No, I'm not contributing any more to this thread.

Cheers!