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TOW New FAQ has changed the game

discomute
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discomute

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1) infantry is now much better
1a) spears suck
1b) temple guard halberds now much better

2) magic is now a bit worse, but importantly casting value will really matter. Battle magic and high magic have big nerfs and I think elementalism is clearly #1 for us.

3) I think overall our faction hasn't been nerfed so basically is going to be a bit better, especially renegades
 
my first impressions

GOOD change:
impetous is now in LD instead of 4+
Saurus are better, with 3+ save in meele and 2 FR
monsters have max 3+ save (which was already our best), so carnos are a little better vs other monsters
having wizards halved casting/dispel bonus, now our bound get indirect buff

BAD change
Poison is now almost useless,
 
Poisoned Attacks are now +2 To Wound @ sixes To Hit. Huge nerf to Skinks, but at least now 5 ppm is justified for them.
 
Definitely doing HW+Shield Saurus now over Spears

The Ogre Blade price increase is rough for ALL Legacy factions, since none of use have a deep pool of magic items to dip into. Its effectively useless now, except maybe on a slann as a spectral doppleganger gimmick choice. But Old Bloods will now always be BoRT because buying the Talisman of Protection it still basically mandatory

Becalming Cogitation gets an indirect boost on a Slann. Since Casting and Dispel are overall harder, rerolls to do either are a big boon. Sorcerous Void is also amazing for Renegade Pack Slann, as a MR is more valuable now too.

All our large targets are a little more safe from shooting, and particularly massive poison shooting blocks. Its really rough on us for skinks to see the nerf to poison, but it does help keep our big guys alive

The close order nerf is tough on us for monster mash. Though it makes taking a bastiladon not feel as bad. But still part of taking a steg chief was high combat res, and now that is one less.

The risks with Stupidity make me not want to ever consider taking Cold One Cav now, even with the renegade pack changes to Cold Blooded.

If you can keep Rippers near a Slann, or if Cold Blooded in the renegades works on impetuous, they are maybe more useable? But low skink LD makes this not as useful for us as say Dragon Princes.
 
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Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
The Ogre Blade price increase is rough for ALL Legacy factions, since none of use have a deep pool of magic items to dip into. Its effectively useless now, except maybe on a slann as a spectral doppleganger gimmick choice. But Old Bloods will now always be BoRT because buying the Talisman of Protection it still basically mandatory
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i'm thinking to leave ToP to Vet to play him with GW and meteoric, and having the oldblood with GW, silvered steel, venom and glyph.

cold one are inplayable, cost is too much even if they didn't have stupidity, imho
 
Fxt said:
i'm thinking to leave ToP to Vet to play him with GW and meteoric, and having the oldblood with GW, silvered steel, venom and glyph.
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I really like this, I just wonder if we still need the Magical Attacks somewhere. Less magic missiles flying around, dealing with ethereal will be harder. And I think screams as a whole just got better.
 
I agree that poison is much worse, now 2 maybe 3 units with javelin are enough. All units with blowpipes become unplayables (a pity i love chameleons!)

I tested today Slann high magic and 20 Temple Guard with warbanner. Got twice +12 in combat resolution. Completely crazy!!
High magic is NOT so bad since with Drain Magic they have to dispel against an 11 (9+2 casting value) that's mean is quite hard for a level 4 too.
Magic resistance is amazing, glyph necklace will be obligatory, but eventually why not a spelleater axe on TG champion (if you dont have enough heroic points).

I still wonder however if it's worth to still play carnosaurs, I played 4 cowboy today with halbeards and wasn't so bad. (Oldlord with Tzunki and Talisman of Protection). Stupidity is a risk but cold blooded helps. Ripperdactyls however have lost a lot. If before could even wipe an infanteries now in big numbers they will be wiped after their attack, so they will be merely war machine hunter. Maybe i'll go back at play terradons instead.

As soon bound items are the same as now both Stegadon and Bastiladon earned a lot. Even Troglodon now is so much better (even if still overprized)
 
Lots of great comments here. I especially love drain magic being back (hasn't thought of that) and how good engine of the gods is.

One thing of note to renegades is the odd wording of palanquin - I presume that the Slann should now be the third rank? It might make that a little worse. (Also I just ranked up all my AoS to fit that, did not see second rank being a fighting rank at all)

I have a theory that magic might become worthless...
 
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discomute said:
I have a theory that magic might become worthless...
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I don't think useless. Some spells casting values went down as well. And for most it also got harder to dispell a successfully cast spell.

Reliability in magic is key now. Rerolls and bonuses to cast is more important. I think we will see more Enchantments and hexes than magic missiles and votlrtex spells as well, as getting a bonus to a combat unit will have more effect on the game than say a fireball.

Also bound spells are now more valuable, so having an ability to stop them is key (looking at the Cathay PL 3 plague of rust there)

I think comparatively to other level 4s, the slann is now in a better place than before, with an ability to be one of the best, if not the best, denial mage, and able to get a bonus from EotG to casting, especially in renegades.

This hurts magic in armies like empire, beastmen, and chaos IMO.

High Elves, Cathay, and Lizardmen fair better.
 
One other thought I had is I've been really loving jungle swarms lately but sadly I think they have had a massive drop in quality. From B+ to C
 
discomute said:
One other thought I had is I've been really loving jungle swarms lately but sadly I think they have had a massive drop in quality. From B+ to C
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What makes you think so, because I was considering trying them now that Skinks are knocked down a peg. Immune to psych and unbreakable seems possibly useful in an infantry meta where they are just going to be stacking combat res
 
Lagast said:
Yeah, but the poison attacks on the swarms made them very good in CC.
IMO they were underrated. I've fielded them 4 wide equals 20 poison attacks.
Parking them in front of cav. Loved it.
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yeah, the +2 to wound now is kinda meh on S2 AP- attacks.

I want to dive into new lists, but I know the renegade pack is going to change. And unsure if it will be as accepted this time. Just not sure if I should be focusing on Grand Army or Renegade tactics
 
Skinks have gone from the best skirmisher unit in the game to just ok objective players i think. I do think we are net worse of due to it. Maybe that counts for me, because i was only considering LM if 6 units of skinks were allowed.
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
What makes you think so, because I was considering trying them now that Skinks are knocked down a peg. Immune to psych and unbreakable seems possibly useful in an infantry meta where they are just going to be stacking combat res
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As mentioned, absolutely the poison attacks. These things can take down most things except for characters on behemoths stacked with magic items. Additionally they are skirmishers so being able to hunt down something that doesn't want to get into combat with you was easy.

Yes they will be C grade because it's still a lot of wounds that need to be shifted but they aren't anything now other than tar pits and I'm guessing the temple guard and even Saurus and going to be more effective at it for the cost.
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
yeah, the +2 to wound now is kinda meh on S2 AP- attacks.

I want to dive into new lists, but I know the renegade pack is going to change. And unsure if it will be as accepted this time. Just not sure if I should be focusing on Grand Army or Renegade tactics
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FYI Val said he was aiming for a release on Monday.
 
I tested Swarms and Skinks in a battle yersterday.
Swarms are just there for unbreakable. They can hold the line, but agree, they don't bring in a lot of wounds... Won't be chosen a lot.
had a duo charge from dragon and heavy cav. That didn't work well :-)

Skinks still do their things, I played vs High Elves which are T3. I aimed for archers, cav, small units. 2+ vs T3 works well.
I had 2 units of skinks, one survived. They scored about 200 a 300 points. I lost 70 points. Good trade.
More important they were annoying and were able to hold back a unit of heavy cav.
 
Killer Angel said:
i suppose you just need to be a little more aware when you pick your targets for shooting. Other than that they work pretty much as before.
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Yes, I wont be using them for high T large targets as before. Screening + small groups cavalry/infantry and perhaps warmachines.
 
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