AoS New Battletome, New List Archetypes

[VikingRage]

Just wanted to start posting some lists and start sussing out some of our new archetypes. Will continue to add/remove them as we figure it out.

Starborne

Trog-bomb: yeet a trog as far as you can with a heroic action and alpha strike as many Slann-sourced mortal wounds as you can through it.

CPP Engine: Run as many wizards as possible to generate as much CPP as possible to spend on excessive summoning/healing/MortalWounds.

Skink Board Control: All of the skinks that can't stop, won't stop moving.

Coalesced

Saurus bites: Maximize as many Saurus models as possible into combat on objectives to chew through your opponents with buffed bite rolls.

Saurus General Board Control: ABCs (Always Be Charging) of saurus board control. Push your saurus across the board as quickly as possible with a Carno Oldblood at the helm.

Monster Mash: We like them big and scaly, making as many monsterous rampages as possible.

 

[Lambs and Lions]

So CCP engine is just Trog Bomb with an extra Slann. Is the summoning worth the cost of a Slann? Maybe.

I don't think Skink Board control is strong enough. One solid group of chargers buffed by a starpriest is good but we can't do more than that. And our skinks die to a hard breeze. Saurus board control is strictly better and there is little to argue otherwise.

Suarus Board control and bites seem like the same list as well. Just switch warriors for the new knights. We will have to see how we compare to other alpha strike board control armies like gore-grunttas and squigs. I think we might not deal enough damage to make it worth it. Telepathic summons is very interesting though.

 

[PabloTho]

So CCP engine is just Trog Bomb with an extra Slann. Is the summoning worth the cost of a Slann? Maybe.

I don't think Skink Board control is strong enough. One solid group of chargers buffed by a starpriest is good but we can't do more than that. And our skinks die to a hard breeze. Saurus board control is strictly better and there is little to argue otherwise.

Suarus Board control and bites seem like the same list as well. Just switch warriors for the new knights. We will have to see how we compare to other alpha strike board control armies like gore-grunttas and squigs. I think we might not deal enough damage to make it worth it. Telepathic summons is very interesting though.

Gore gruntas are perhaps the most 1:1 comparison to Aggradons. They're 40pts cheaper, a little easier to buff for more damage, and even then the potency of grunta lists has rapidly depreciated in the current meta.

Aggradons are relying on having a slight defensive boon in Scaly Skin in order to pull off the same strategy, despite being more expensive. I'm not sure they're able to pull it off even when supported by a reinforced core of warriors (and that doesn't leave many pts for support heroes).

 

[Lambs and Lions]

Gore gruntas are perhaps the most 1:1 comparison to Aggradons. They're 40pts cheaper, a little easier to buff for more damage, and even then the potency of grunta lists has rapidly depreciated in the current meta.

Aggradons are relying on having a slight defensive boon in Scaly Skin in order to pull off the same strategy, despite being more expensive. I'm not sure they're able to pull it off even when supported by a reinforced core of warriors (and that doesn't leave many pts for support heroes).

Yeah that is my biggest problem with Saurus is they can do some nice tricks but other armies do it and just hit harder. And a carnosaur is no maw krusha. But maybe I am looking at it wrong and the survivability is really what's going to save them.

Personally I think I am going to stay starborne and be the master of magic. Trog Bomb is powerful and there is very little someone can do to counter it when you can keep Kroak more than 30" away.

 

[PabloTho]

Yeah that is my biggest problem with Saurus is they can do some nice tricks but other armies do it and just hit harder. And a carnosaur is no maw krusha. But maybe I am looking at it wrong and the survivability is really what's going to save them.

Personally I think I am going to stay starborne and be the master of magic. Trog Bomb is powerful and there is very little someone can do to counter it when you can keep Kroak more than 30" away.

Trog bomb is absolutely "the" competitive list. But at least to me, on paper it's so unbelievably cracked that I can't imagine it gets through the next GHB without being strung up.

 

[Lambs and Lions]

Trog bomb is absolutely "the" competitive list. But at least to me, on paper it's so unbelievably cracked that I can't imagine it gets through the next GHB without being strung up.

My biggest fear with Trog Bomb is that it will be too much of a rock paper scissors match up. Against a traditional lists you will kill all their small heros and the rest of the army will have a hard time mustering back. But against sons of behemat you did some moral wounds to a few giants and they didn't really care.

It also is yet to be seen if Trog Bomb is better than CCP engine lists. They are the same list but summoning has an extra Slann at the cost of less board presence.

 

[Acehilator]

The Slann is the dude with Lord of Celestial Resonance and will generate 7 CCP by his lonesome every turn like clockwork. Without him, you can't even get a Spawn of Chotec per turn. With him, it's a unit of Kroxigor every turn.

 

[VikingRage]

I think that Trog Bomb and CPP Engine have a very similar core to the list, but they really start to differentiate at the fringes. What Spells, Endless Spells, other enhancements to really lean into their respective goals.

I have a few tentative lists written up, but I noticed that with Nuking MWs as the goal, I start to consider the Starseer to yeet out and start tunneling back on turn 2 in case Trog went down, and to debuff anything still out there with ward saves. I don't need to worry about maxing out CPP so I don't consider unbinding endless spells just to garner more points, once I start dropping the rest of my list in at turn two, I really just want to hit 5CPP each turn to pop Azure light to help keep my screens up, and any extra is gravy to summon in more MSU screens.

CPP Engine is pushing point generation to the max, I think the main difference is that this list is open to planning on playing the long game as the goal, and potentially going for target saturation with an overwhelming number of bodies on the table to gum up the board and soak up damage.

I am not sure that Dracolith's Tail is better than Fangs for the Engine list, being able to redeploy 3 times a turn might be relevant, but I am leaning to DT until I have battletome in hand for a few weeks, and a few games under my belt.

 

[Acehilator]

Thinking about the Starseer too. It's better value than the Starpriest if you don't have a good target unit for Serpent Staff, and in most Starborn lists you won't have such a unit.

 

[Acehilator]

On another note, anybody got any ideas on how to build a Saurus list? I'm coming up empty. Suxx so bad that a Slann is mandatory (without Empowered Celestite, Warriors are not going to function I feel).

 

[VikingRage]

Thinking about the Starseer too. It's better value than the Starpriest if you don't have a good target unit for Serpent Staff, and in most Starborn lists you won't have such a unit.

Good point, I am going to toss a 30 block of Skinks with clubs and shields at some point since they got more durable and still have 2 attacks each, but apart from that, I really think it's more usefull for the defensive spell than anything else for starborn. Well that and being our cheapest wizard hero (even if only slightly) helps in Starborne too.

 

[VikingRage]

On another note, anybody got any ideas on how to build a Saurus list? I'm coming up empty. Suxx so bad that a Slann is mandatory (without Empowered Celestite, Warriors are not going to function I feel).

I have a few ideas that I am tossing around atm. A Slann does feel like an auto-include for a few different reasons, but I want to focus on Saurus Enhancements for the most part, I think Kroak as the warmaster behind a Carno General is one of the list's I am tossing about as viable. It does chew up a lot of points, but I won't be getting down to brass tacks on it till the weekend when I crack the box.

I am actually also tossing around a list that spams Scar-Vets on Aggradons to proc their warscroll ability for increased damage after getting a pile of Cav stuck in for a turn.

 

[Acehilator]

Scar-Vet on Aggradon has the same problems as most support heroes nowadays do (it's not limited to our battletome). They are too expensive points-wise. GW have become paranoid of unwanted rules interactions, so they have been stripping away more and more. In this case, unique command abilities. But the units are still priced as before. Super limited once per game abilities are not even remotely the same.

Oldblood on Carnosaur is the much better pick for Aggrodon support, imho. Especially with the Vengeful Defender command trait. 4" more movement on two normal moves for the Carno means much easier charges for him. Run + charge one unit of Aggradons and you have two reliable charges. And a Roar. And the Carno itself is a perfectly fine target for the second use of AoA.

But Kroak for Coalesced is a really good call, I think. It solves the problem of regular Slann only knowing one spell. And you can get away with not using the Astrolith, maybe?

 

[Vexcor]

Aggradons can be used as a big distraction in my opinion. The models look scary and with a lot of attacks they sound like the hard strike for the opponent. Maybe we can use this to our advantage.

 

[PJetski]

Aggradons are just... not very good. They need to be cheaper than Warriors to see play imo

 

[Acehilator]

They are not really competing for the same slot. Aggradons are 60% faster, deal twice the damage (9.44 vs 4.67, min units with spears), but less armor (most of the time), and only 75% of HP. It's apples and oranges, offense vs defense.

 

[PJetski]

Warriors do more damage when you add buffs (Slann spell only buffs Celestite weapons, +1 attack scales better with Warriors, +1 hit and +1 wound scale better on warriors) and the Bite attacks can do significant mortal wounds if you are Coalesced and standing near the Realmshaper Engine.
Why are you using spears on a unit of 10...? Warriors can be in Veterans and fight in two ranks, so they can fight better reinforced. If you are just using minimum sized units with no buffs, you should consider using different units

The speed difference is not as relevant as you think, since both units will want to use the hero phase move and then run6 and charge (with a spell). 16" move is more than enough in this season.

Aggradons are lacking purpose.

 

[Acehilator]

I'm just comparing min sized units to get a baseline. I used Spears for Warriors because the interesting fights will be done by reinforced units, but Gallet will almost be over by the time our tome gets fully adopted. Forgot the bites, true (so it's 9.44 vs 8 in Coalesced), and better scaling on the Celestite spell is also true. Yeah that's even worse than I thought.

Drawing a blank, which ability gives +1 attack?

 

[PJetski]

I'm just comparing min sized units to get a baseline. I used Spears for Warriors because the interesting fights will be done by reinforced units, but Gallet will almost be over by the time our tome gets fully adopted. Forgot the bites, true (so it's 9.44 vs 8 in Coalesced), and better scaling on the Celestite spell is also true. Yeah that's even worse than I thought.

Drawing a blank, which ability gives +1 attack?

Wrath of Aeons, COALESCED Slann Command Trait
To be fair it probably won't be used because Vengeful Defender (SAURUS command trait) is so much more useful for Saurus Warriors, but it is a +50% damage boost on the Celestite Weapons of Saurus Warriors for that turn so it is worth mentioning

 

[Acehilator]

Urgh that... yeah I hate "once per battle" BS abilties with the fury of a thousands suns. Crap design is crap.