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AoS New Battletome, have dino lists gone extinct?

Kilvakar said:
So the new battletome does a lot of good things, but at least to me it seems to nerf our dino army lists, and Stegadons in particular, to the absolute ground.

But I'm not as experienced a player as a lot of my fellow Lustrians, so perhaps there are some things I'm missing. Is there any reason to play Thunder Lizards once the new book releases? Or are dino-heavy lists dead for the rest of this edition?

Engine of the Gods is complete garbage now, but thankfully it seems to be the only unit in the book for which that can be truly said. However, I can't really find any more ways to buff Stegadons, and don't see a reason to take them at 300 points. Trog is actually useful now, even without spell-bombing. Carnosaurs seem to have gotten at least marginally better, now having more reliable damage and slightly better survivability.

Does anyone see any merit in playing Thunder Lizards? Or attempting to run a lot of dinos in Koatl's Claw? Or even Dracothion's Tail? I'd be very interested to hear some theory-crafting on this while we wait for the release :)
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Possible Shooting Thunder lizard list? Aquire targets with purple sun and sally's use the old blood to all out attack with steggy and basty, shoot shoot shoot until you can charge double rampages? not sure on the spells to take maybe the universal fly and the zappy spell?

*gen* Oldblood on Carnasaur:
cmd: Thickly Scaled Hide
Item:Bloodrage Pendant

*Troglodon
*Starpriest

Stegadon :Skystreak bow
Bastiladon:Solar Engine
3x Spawn of Chotec
3x Skink (10)

Endless spells: Purple Sun and Burning Head
 
Kilvakar said:
They really need to be. Because right now there's no reason to take a Stegadon over the Ark of Sotek.
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PJetski said:
There are plenty of reasons: +3 Move, +2 Wounds, +3 bravery (and gives +3 to all SKINK nearby), strike last rampage in coalesced, counts as 10 on objectives, better melee damage, a decent shooting attack, SKINK keyword (Tepoks Beneficence)

Stegadons are a good unit... but they could come down 50p and be a great unit
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Compared to the old stegadon in the previous list, it got 4 more wounds, brackets more slowly due to wounds, get a minor boost to rend on the meteoric javelins, counts as 10 for objectives, got a minor improvement to steadfast majesty (and now has +3 bravery built-in instead of needing to apply this ability to itself), and improved unstoppable stampede to do MW on 2+ instead of 3+, for a 30 point cost increase. As a standalone warscroll, it is an objective improvement.

The issue of course is that the Stegadon hasn't generally been great in the past because it stood alone. It had a ton of extremely powerful synergies (moreso for the EotG or Stegadon Chief) that are now gone. It still has Coalesced benefits (-1 damage, new monstrous rampage) and thunder lizard abilities (two monstrous rampage, battleline). But it can't shoot twice.

For the EotG or Stegadon Chief, people are mostly upset about the artifacts, command traits and priest keyword that are gone. But for the reg steg, don't underestimate the potency of counting as 10 models for objectives. That can really help win games.
 
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Vallis said:
For the EotG or Stegadon Chief, people are mostly upset about the artifacts, command traits and priest keyword that are gone. But for the reg steg, don't underestimate the potency of counting as 10 models for objectives. That can really help win games.
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Quite true, regular Stegadons aren't bad. I still think they're overcosted because we don't have anything that can buff them, especially in a Thunder Lizard army, but I still think that the Chief and the Engine are pretty much DoA unless and until they get some points drops.

I guess a Thunder Lizard list is still doable, but the whole point is having Stegadons as battleline and 300 points for 14 wounds is pretty steep when you could pay 200 points for 20 wounds for a Saurus unit that's going to stick around longer, be easier to buff and often deal more damage.

Not *all* our monsters got the nerhammer, just the ones we used, lol! Carnosaurs, Trogolodons and the Ark of Sotek are all actually worth using now, which is good. Maybe if Bastiladons were also battleline in TL it would be better...
 
More Dino Lists.
Kroak's Moving Castle?
Staying together,slinging ranged attacks, using azure light to bring back guard, and the self healing leaders just might let you accumulate some charges on the Engines.if not heal heal heal.

*GEN* Troglodon Cmd: Heroic Stature. Spell: Cosmic Crush.
*Troglodon Item: Incandescent Retrices. Spell: Cosmic Crush.
*Kroak

15 x Saurus Guard
2 x Engine of the Gods

LMAO its so skinnyformation.png
 
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Kilvakar said:
I guess a Thunder Lizard list is still doable, but the whole point is having Stegadons as battleline and 300 points for 14 wounds is pretty steep when you could pay 200 points for 20 wounds for a Saurus unit that's going to stick around longer, be easier to buff and often deal more damage.
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...and that can be teleported right in melee.
 
The +3 move is nice
+2 wounds doesn't matter, Basti is better with 2+ armor and no degradation
+3 bravery largely irrelevant
+3 bravery for skins... will come in handy once in a blue moon
Strike last rampage is just more random BS, Basti rampage is more reliable
Basti with Ark of Sotek has some pretty nice melee damage (sick atm and too tired to dig out the numbers)
shooting attack is a joke for a 300 point model
Skink keyword is also whatever (you should have better targets to use buffs on)

So all in all, Stegadon is a whole lot of "meh" for +50% points. And that's compared to a unit that isn't exactly setting the world on fire itself.
 
Dropping Stegadons into play >7" and roasting hordes with the Sunfire Thrower before getting an easy charge feels really good. So does Unleash Hell with the Sunfire Thrower, even better when it reduces an enemy unit to <6 models so you can activate Armoured Crest at the start of the combat phase.
Counting as 10 on objectives even after taking 10+ wounds is really good. This is something that Raptodon Chargers cannot do, since they will always die to the counterattack. Even a weak attacker can kill 2-3 chickens and cause the remainder to flee.

Stegadons are a good warscroll, they just need a ~40p reduction.
 
PJetski said:
Stegadons are a good warscroll, they just need a ~40p reduction.
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100% agree. There was no reason to raise the cost to 300, other than the typical "this gets used a lot so it must need a nerf" reasoning GW uses.

If they drop Stegadons in points I can see Thunder Lizard being good again. Sadly with only 3 shots I don't see the Solar Engine Bastiladon doing much, so the shooty aspect of TL is probably dead no matter what. But with a reduced point costs Stegs could be worth fielding as battleline again.
 
Bastiladons shooting is good. It's the only source of reliable ranged damage against units with 5 or fewer models.
Spawn of Chotec is obviously great against anything with 10+ models, but Seraphon don't have anything else that is good at shooting something like Fulminators, Stormdrakes, Gargants, Mawkrushas, etc.
If you just use it to shoot then it doesnt seem worth 265p, but if you consider the whole package of a 12W MONSTER body with a 2+ save and a cannon strapped to its back, the Bastiladon feels really good. Its not going to wipe out units like it used to in the previous book but it reliably contributes 6 damage per turn to whatever you are trying to focus fire down... and sometimes it can swing high and blast things for 9 damage.

It will look a lot better once Key to Victory is gone and you can use it to snipe heroes.

I would prefer if it was around 240 instead of 265, though.
 
PJetski said:
I would prefer if it was around 240 instead of 265, though.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ark of Sotek and Solar Engine bastiladons reconverge in point cost again, somewhere in the 230 to 240 point range.
 
PJetski said:
it reliably contributes 6 damage per turn to whatever you are trying to focus fire down...
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No, no it's not. Yes, it could, but no, the average damage is not 6. not with 3 shots at 4+ / 3+. How can you say it's reliable?
 
i think the point is Bastilodon can do some damage with solar even its very swingy. His main strength is his tankiness.
you have got a artillery who is difficult to kill and annoying on objectives. Point wise its to much, 240 would be much more realistic.
Basti with snakes is very cheap and i understand why i see it more often in battle reports. personally i think the differense between
both should be more close. Make the Solar engine cheaper and it would see a lot more play.

i mean who doesnt like shooting with big laser dinos?
 
Vexcor said:
Point wise its to much, 240 would be much more realistic.
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I would even say 220, but yes.
I'm pretty sure its cost will be lowered, but we'll have to wait. ATM we are stuck with the current value, so i expect to don't see many laserdon in the future games.
 
Killer Angel said:
No, no it's not. Yes, it could, but no, the average damage is not 6. not with 3 shots at 4+ / 3+. How can you say it's reliable?
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Because its 3+ Hit and not 4+ like you said. There aren't many units we want to use AOA on in the shooting phase (Spawn of Chotec already hit on 2+) so its usually hitting on 2+
 
Solar Engine Bastiladon will average 4 wounds per shooting phase against a 4+ save, but it's pretty swingy.

Yes, it has a natural 3+ to hit.

3 attacks x ⅔ (3+ to hit) x ⅔ (3+ to wound) x 3 damage x 1 (no save at rend -3) = 4.

That means it will average slightly better than one attack scoring 3 damage each shooting phase. On average, every 3rd shooting phase or will score 2 successful shots causing 6 wounds. But of course, sometimes it will fail entirely (0 wounds) or beat the odds (9 wounds).

With All Out Attack at +1 to hit, it would average 5 wounds, as now it is more likely to succeed at 2 of its attacks than just 1.

It will average 3 wounds when using Unleash Hell at -1 to hit against a charge.
 
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