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AoS More details of the new GH !! Awesome updates

The Seraphon are one of the most improved armies in the new General’s Handbook, with new allegiance abilities, warlord traits, artefacts and two Warscroll battalions. The most powerful of these is the Lords of Space and Time allegiance ability – which lets you remove a unit and replace it anywhere on the battlefield more than 9″ from the enemy. One of the best units to combine this with is a Troglodon, which – with its increased charge range thanks to Drawn to the Screams – should be more than able to make the 9″ charge move.
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Mmm...tasty.


Dreadful example, but tasty ability.
 
My first thought with this was take a unit of 40 skinks, use inspiring presence and teleport them turn 1 in a long line in front of your opponent, should stall them for a couple of turns and you may even snipe a character with all the blowpipe shots. Combine with a shadowstrike battalion with some rippers and they may not leave their deployment zone for 2-3 turns all he while you're scoring objectives. Wont work every single game but could certainly throw a wrench in some plans.
 
Good to see us finally getting some love!
 
The New alliance ability seems interesting.... Not very useful for charges (except for the troglodon) but I definatelly see some alternative uses.

Is this only one unit per battle?

Finally i also believe this means no lore for us.
 
Xlanax_lot said:
The New alliance ability seems interesting.... Not very useful for charges (except for the troglodon) but I definatelly see some alternative uses.

Is this only one unit per battle?

Finally i also believe this means no lore for us.
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That's what I'm wondering, if this is a once per battle still pretty good, but if its something we can do say every hero phase, It'll be quite powerful
 
I'm hopeful it's every Hero phase going by the example of the 40K Orks da Jump psychic power. As I said in the other thread I think this is a mea culpa on the summoning issue with our army being built for summons. So we can't just add to our army willy nilly but it lets us teleport units throughout the battle.
 
KingCheops said:
I'm hopeful it's every Hero phase going by the example of the 40K Orks da Jump psychic power. As I said in the other thread I think this is a mea culpa on the summoning issue with our army being built for summons. So we can't just add to our army willy nilly but it lets us teleport units throughout the battle.
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Meh, if it's only once per battle, or even only one unit per turn it'l be fairly mediocre to use offensivly. If you teleport 1 unit without any support it's just liable to get slaughtered. It still has very interesting uses for flanking or contesting an objective. But if all it is is 1 unit it's a bit underwhelming. So I'd expect it to be multiple in some way. It is not like we have a particularly shooting heavy army so it's not like we can abuse it to kite, and since we can't make base-contact with it we also can't abuse it to stick to an opponent all that well. So I'd expect multiple to be fine. Especially if there's some limits like it doesn't work when in melee combat or some such.
 
Canas said:
Meh, if it's only once per battle, or even only one unit per turn it'l be fairly mediocre to use offensivly. If you teleport 1 unit without any support it's just liable to get slaughtered. It still has very interesting uses for flanking or contesting an objective. But if all it is is 1 unit it's a bit underwhelming. So I'd expect it to be multiple in some way. It is not like we have a particularly shooting heavy army so it's not like we can abuse it to kite, and since we can't make base-contact with it we also can't abuse it to stick to an opponent all that well. So I'd expect multiple to be fine. Especially if there's some limits like it doesn't work when in melee combat or some such.
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Without even trying it yet, I think you seriously undermine the possibilities. You can be anywhere on the field at any given time. For all reasons that could come up.
In a game of strategy that mobility clearly is the most important factor, you get such an ability.
If it would be able for more than 1 it would be broken to the point that I wouldnt even wanna play it :p

Without even mentioning that our threat range suddenly becomes literally limitless ! ( psychological pressure alone is huge )
 
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Seraphage said:
Without even trying it yet, I think you seriously undermine the possibilities. You can be anywhere on the field at any given time. For all reasons that could come up.
In a game of strategy that mobility clearly is the most important factor, you get such an ability.
If it would be able for more than 1 it would be broken to the point that I wouldnt even wanna play it :p

Without even mentioning that our threat range suddenly becomes literally limitless ! ( psychological pressure alone is huge )
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O it won't necesarly be "bad" just not what I'd want. And in general I dislike abilities like this. Right now it feels very much like an "o-shit"-button ability where you teleport some badly positioned slann to safety, or where you abuse it to just dump a carnosaur (or other major threat) on top of the enemy killing them before they can respond which isn't so much a well thought out strategy as much as its just dumping a carnosaur on someones face...
 
Canas said:
... or where you abuse it to just dump a carnosaur (or other major threat) on top of the enemy killing them before they can respond which isn't so much a well thought out strategy as much as its just dumping a carnosaur on someones face...
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You say that as if it is a bad thing - dumping a Carnosaur in someone's face looks like a thing of beauty to me :)

More than slightly concerned that there is still no mention of any useful spells for a Slann.

The ability to teleport Kroak across the table to do his mortal wound spam thing (presumably screened by Rippers dropping out of the sky) looks borderline broken.
 
Tokek said:
You say that as if it is a bad thing - dumping a Carnosaur in someone's face looks like a thing of beauty to me :)

More than slightly concerned that there is still no mention of any useful spells for a Slann.

The ability to teleport Kroak across the table to do his mortal wound spam thing (presumably screened by Rippers dropping out of the sky) looks borderline broken.
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It reminds me too much of some of the rubbish I've seen in in videogames like LoL with people appearing out of nowhere through impassable terrain immeadiatly kill their target and retreat the way they came in the span of a second or two. It's just cheap. Fun the first time you get to do it, never fun if you're on the recieving end....

With just 1 unit teleporting it feels to much like either it'l be sub-part cuz teleporting that 1 guy/unit without support is suicidal, or it'l be a stupid cheese strategy where you dump something hard hitting as a sacrificial bomb and just blow up as much as possible.
 
Canas said:
It reminds me too much of some of the rubbish I've seen in in videogames like LoL with people appearing out of nowhere through impassable terrain immeadiatly kill their target and retreat the way they came in the span of a second or two. It's just cheap. Fun the first time you get to do it, never fun if you're on the recieving end....

With just 1 unit teleporting it feels to much like either it'l be sub-part cuz teleporting that 1 guy/unit without support is suicidal, or it'l be a stupid cheese strategy where you dump something hard hitting as a sacrificial bomb and just blow up as much as possible.
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Well lizards appearing out of nowhere is very much core to the Seraphon vibe and it is missing from Matched Play right now due to the way summoning works. Whether lizards appearing out of thin air is a part of the background that you like is another matter :)
 
It will be a helpful counter to the new stormcast, flesheater courts and Slyvanth abilities though, ho you jump to those trees, sweet cya there! Firelance and shadow strike will work really nice together have your knights teleport then the rippers swoop down hopefully pass your charge, if not screen the knights with skinks, let the skinks get charged and wary fighters away letting you set up for a 3" charge next turn. I know I mentioned it in the other GHB2 thread,I just want it to be a thing lmao.
 
Tokek said:
Well lizards appearing out of nowhere is very much core to the Seraphon vibe and it is missing from Matched Play right now due to the way summoning works. Whether lizards appearing out of thin air is a part of the background that you like is another matter :)
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You misunderstand, I'm completly fine with them appearing out of thin air (yes I know it seems counter to what I just said)

The issue I have is if it's limited to one unit occasionally appearing out of thin air. The issue this creates is that the ability will simply not be used a lot of the course of a match. This can have a number of consequences.

The first is that it can result in the ability either being largely irrelevant, because it simply cannot be used frequently enough (yes you'l get the occasionall teleport that wins the match, but you also get the occasional "my skink rolls perfectly and defeats your lord-celestant on a stardrake).

The second is that the ability will only be used as part of some stupendous cheese strategy e.g. dump kroak in the middle of the enemy, cast celestial deliverance x3 (assuming they fix the rule of one to not ruin abilities like celestial deliverance anymore), laugh as the enemy losses half his army instantly. This isn't fun to play against.

The third option would 'be that the ability is meaningfull enough to want to use a counterstrategy, but too infrequent to make this worth it. Which makes it increadibly frustrating to deal with as the ability essentially just forces you to pick your poison. Either you can use the counterstrategy, and preemptivly screen what you want to protect, but sacrifice the objective, or you can ignore it and have a carnosaur teleported on your hero.

Which are all issues I've seen in videogames when stuff got balanced with CD's or limited targets.. it nearly Always just results in one of these three, and sometimes it manage to get both the second and the last. Rarely do cd's and limiting the number of valid targets work all that well...
 
I just hope they will think of some ways to make us more tanky. Perhaps one of the other Allegiance abilities will be Scaly skin with a ward save of 5+ against normal damage? (keep my fingers crossed!)
 
Canas said:
You misunderstand, I'm completly fine with them appearing out of thin air (yes I know it seems counter to what I just said)

The issue I have is if it's limited to one unit occasionally appearing out of thin air. The issue this creates is that the ability will simply not be used a lot of the course of a match. This can have a number of consequences.

The first is that it can result in the ability either being largely irrelevant, because it simply cannot be used frequently enough (yes you'l get the occasionall teleport that wins the match, but you also get the occasional "my skink rolls perfectly and defeats your lord-celestant on a stardrake).

The second is that the ability will only be used as part of some stupendous cheese strategy e.g. dump kroak in the middle of the enemy, cast celestial deliverance x3 (assuming they fix the rule of one to not ruin abilities like celestial deliverance anymore), laugh as the enemy losses half his army instantly. This isn't fun to play against.

The third option would 'be that the ability is meaningfull enough to want to use a counterstrategy, but too infrequent to make this worth it. Which makes it increadibly frustrating to deal with as the ability essentially just forces you to pick your poison. Either you can use the counterstrategy, and preemptivly screen what you want to protect, but sacrifice the objective, or you can ignore it and have a carnosaur teleported on your hero.

Which are all issues I've seen in videogames when stuff got balanced with CD's or limited targets.. it nearly Always just results in one of these three, and sometimes it manage to get both the second and the last. Rarely do cd's and limiting the number of valid targets work all that well...
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Keep your own words : it is only 1 unit per turn. Not something to be abused or broken. The rest can happen as much as they cannot. They are hypotheses ! :p
 
I'm pretty sure Kroak will still be limited to 1 time per turn just like everyone else. Also count me into the camp worried about not seeing any mention of spell lore or priest abilities.

Canas you are drastically understating the power of this ability if it is 1 per turn. Again assuming it is modeled on da Jump it won't (and no indication otherwise yet) have language preventing you from using it on units locked in combat. This also makes us one of the better assassination armies in the game. This will force opponents to play more defensively than they otherwise would.

In comparison to summoning this ability is vastly better. You'd never get more than 20 saurus with a summoning and they'd all have to be placed within a certain distance of the slann (or vassal) which can be blocked by the opponent. Summoning is possibly subject to spell failure and dispel. Summoning takes up a spell slot which can't then be used on anything else.

This can also combo with summoning. Instead of using 2 summoning spells and associated risk you use this ability to teleport your salamanders and use a single summoning for skink handlers.

Edit: Also, most importantly (depending on how it works), this allows us to teleport without relying on a Slann in the army using summoning.
 
I'm not understating it. I'm just expecting it to either be massivly underwhelming in 99% of the cases or become basicly mandatory, in which case it's likely a cheese strategy. Most likely the latter of these two options. And really neither of these I find all that appealing. Hence I'm worried.
 
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