TOW MOAB Event List- 2250, updated

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

So I am down to this I believe. Final cuts because of what I have to paint and and I don't want to buy more models right now (Blood Angels set me back)

The debate I have is with Warbanner on the Skink Chief. Seems really nice for some static combat resolution

But I can drop it and do one of 2 things
1- take a Ruby Ring of Ruin instead
2- Upgrade my Rare Stegadon to an ancient steg. Also would have 10 point to spare for anything else.

Not sure what would be better over all for the list.

Also debating switching the saurus from Spears to Hand Weapons (then filling in points with a few skinks and a Patrol leader)

===
MOAB Lizards [2250 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [1093 pts] ++

Slann Mage-Priest [375 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Lore Familiar
- Higher State Of Mind
- Battle Magic

Saurus Oldblood [405 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Skink Chief [313 pts]
- Additional hand weapon
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Stegadon [Giant bow]

++ Core Units [564 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warriors [309 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard
- Patrol Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Blowpipes
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [378 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

4 Kroxigors [203 pts]
- Great weapons
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Ancient (champion)

++ Rare Units [215 pts] ++

Stegadon [215 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[discomute]

Don't take a champion for your Kroxigor. You risk getting into combat with something big and being issued a challenge.

You three options regarding the warbanner, RRoR or ancient stegadon are all reasonable options. I think probably the warbanner is the pick but its a tough one.

Blowpipes are flat out bad, in my opinion. Best bet is to try to get charged by something.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Minor Tweaks
-Dropped Krox Ancient
-Dropped Thrusting Spears on Suarus
-Added Biting Blade and Charmed Shield to Saurus Champ
-Added a 4th skink to the bastilladon

===
MOAB Lizards [2250 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [1093 pts] ++

Slann Mage-Priest [375 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Lore Familiar
- Higher State Of Mind
- Battle Magic

Saurus Oldblood [405 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Skink Chief [313 pts]
- Additional hand weapon
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Stegadon [Giant bow]

++ Core Units [566 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warriors [311 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion) [Biting Blade + Charmed Shield]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard
- Patrol Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Blowpipes
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [376 pts] ++

Bastiladon [180 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine
- Fourth Skink crew member

4 Kroxigors [196 pts]
- Great weapons
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)

++ Rare Units [215 pts] ++

Stegadon [215 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

 

[DoubleSkulls]

-Added Biting Blade and Charmed Shield to Saurus Champ

Any particular rationale for this?
I think the Biting blade would be good on the Skink BSB. With a magic sword you can give him the Javelin too, with Bs5 S4 I think its good value for 3 points, and he's got WS4, S4, A3 so can get value from the Biting Blade's AP in battle (and does not get obsidian blades).

Also, would the 5 points for the Charmed Shield be better off upgrading one of the skinks to Scouts?

 

[DoubleSkulls]

RRoR is best on a character who is going to stay away from the main action. If you plan to use the Skink Chief on the flanks, so he's often outside the opponent's dispel range then it may be more useful than the War Banner. If I were playing against you I'd probably try to feed the Chief chaff, and the RRoR lets you clear it away. The 360 firing arc makes it very useful on him.
If you are charging up the middle the RRoR will get dispelled more often than not, so you'll get more value from the War Banner (and you can take the Biting Blade then too!)

 

[discomute]

Any particular rationale for this?
I think the Biting blade would be good on the Skink BSB. With a magic sword you can give him the Javelin too, with Bs5 S4 I think its good value for 3 points, and he's got WS4, S4, A3 so can get value from the Biting Blade's AP in battle (and does not get obsidian blades).

Also, would the 5 points for the Charmed Shield be better off upgrading one of the skinks to Scouts?

I see no reason to put 20 points on a champion, with just a single wound, low initiative and one unlikely to charge. I'd take spears for the unit over that, easy

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Any particular rationale for this?
I think the Biting blade would be good on the Skink BSB. With a magic sword you can give him the Javelin too, with Bs5 S4 I think its good value for 3 points, and he's got WS4, S4, A3 so can get value from the Biting Blade's AP in battle (and does not get obsidian blades).

Also, would the 5 points for the Charmed Shield be better off upgrading one of the skinks to Scouts?

Don't have points really to do it with the Skink chief. I am 4 points over the min for core, so can't shed anything there. If I ditch the wargear, I just have to take other things to up the points. My Rare is min costed steg, so nothing to lose without losing the unit. Special I can lose 5 points from the Bastiladon at most with the 4th skink. Don't want to lose a whole Krox for those weapons on the chief. Just basically no way to get 15 points to do it without just completely dropping special and rare units, or other wargear in my lords and heroes.

Essentially I saw those upgrades more useful than some more blowpipe skinks, and I didn't want to run spears, so the wargear took me over the min.

I was inspired looking at the Lizardmen List in the 'Ard Boyz NOVA event coming up. Way I see it is its a nice little surprise if something ethereal charges, and a good way to win a challenge vs a champion, even for more elite units like Chosen Knights, Grail Knights, etc. Something that doesn't have particularly high T but possibly a high save.

But it was mostly about getting over the min core requirement. Understand spears can do the same, but I like obsidian blades more personally with the prevalence of Brettonians at events. And without magic that otherwise messes with Armour values, having a natural -1 I think will just be more useful over all.

As for Scouts vs Vanaguard on the skinks, I just find I goon up scout deployments way more than vanguard moves.

 

[DoubleSkulls]

I am 4 points over the min for core

Ah, the classic problem in most lists! You could swap the War Banner onto the Saurus and then put the Blade on the Skink, that would keep the points the same in each pot and, fingers crossed, the slightly higher damage output would compensate for the reduction in static CR.

As for Scouts vs Vanaguard on the skinks, I just find I goon up scout deployments way more than vanguard moves.

I'm finding that having a single unit of scouts can be quite useful as your opponent tries to ensure there are no gaps in their deployment zone, potentially leading to sub-optimal placement, and if they don't leave any gaps you can be 12" from their deployment zone, when the closest you can get with Vanguard is 18". Against many armies it really makes very little difference, but against Armies with their own scouts and/or running a gunline it can be very useful.

I can lose 5 points from the Bastiladon at most with the 4th skink.

I'd put this 5 points into the skink skirmishers anyway. I'm assuming you'll be sitting outside of dispel range and using the Beam of Chotec as artillery. In that case your crew wont get as much action as the skirmishers.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Ah, the classic problem in most lists! You could swap the War Banner onto the Saurus and then put the Blade on the Skink, that would keep the points the same in each pot and, fingers crossed, the slightly higher damage output would compensate for the reduction in static CR.


I'm finding that having a single unit of scouts can be quite useful as your opponent tries to ensure there are no gaps in their deployment zone, potentially leading to sub-optimal placement, and if they don't leave any gaps you can be 12" from their deployment zone, when the closest you can get with Vanguard is 18". Against many armies it really makes very little difference, but against Armies with their own scouts and/or running a gunline it can be very useful.


I'd put this 5 points into the skink skirmishers anyway. I'm assuming you'll be sitting outside of dispel range and using the Beam of Chotec as artillery. In that case your crew wont get as much action as the skirmishers.

Unfortunatly Saurus Warriors can't take magic banners. Just Temple Guard. Otherwise it would live there.

The Bastiladon likely will close for the +1 init he provides and sturdiness. Plus great flank protection. Beam is just nice to get off. Extra Skink there was for some added poison attacks with a Javelin on something that won't blow over to a stiff breeze.

I also only own 36 Javelin and shield skinks and would have to proxy one to add another there.

I'll try a to get a test with one scout and one Vanguard. What you say is good logic. I just somehow always goon up scout in GW games.

 

[DoubleSkulls]

Doh! I hadn't spotted that Saurus aren't allowed a magic banner. Are they are the most egregious core tax in the game? I wouldn't take any from choice, and I'm running just 10 of them with no upgrades. It may be their best configuration, because I don't expect anything from them! I better stop there as otherwise I'll just rant about how restrictive the Lizard list is compared to almost everyone else.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Welp went 1-4, but won Favourite Opponent/Best Sportsmanship so that was awesome
L- Wood Elves, 7-13
L- Tomb Kings, 9-11
W- Beastmen, 12-8
L- Empire, 8-12
L- Chaos Dwarves, 6-14

Chaos Dwarves were the most bitter because I made a really stupid mistake towards the end of the game that allowed my opponent to over run into my BSB chief, which caused at least a swing from 8-12 to 6-14. Also failed critical charges with my Old Blood that then allowed the hero that ATE my Slann AND BSB to run around. So IDK how that game couldv'e gone had my dice managed, because I was able to keep his bull centaurs distracted most the game with skinks.

I didn't really like the Battle Magic Ethereal Slann that much. I see how he can be usefull to get up some combat res maybe, but ultimately there are better/cheaper ways to do that. Maybe if Infantry was more important and relevant to the game this would be a great thing, as that would be the ideal target for his charge I think. Or if all the Battle Magic spells were useful. But overall the slann just left me feeling whelmed. It was really nice having a level 4, but he just isn't a great one.

For Saurus, definitely painting up and trying spears next time. Too many times where I just didn't get to attack. -1 AP is nice, but it is useless if the fighting rank is always dead.

A single unit of blowpipes wasn't the worst thing. A couple of times where being -2 and fishing for 6s was fine because I was going to need 6s to wound anyway. And then there were a few times where I was still and got full shots at full BS. So yeah, not the worst. Still will take 3 units of Javelins first, and I would like to see if I like 4 unit as well, but one unit of 10 blowpipes was a nice option.

The Bastilidon REALLY needs fixing. He is so underwhelming on the table. Not tough or strong enough (S4 with a Thunderous Bludgeon makes no sense), only 4 wounds. Thing is bulkier than a steg, so from a logic perspective I already didn't like it, but in game it just never seems to deliver. Only useful thing is a 3+ save and stubborn. But if they wanted to make it interesting it would be unbreakable. That would maybe give it a bit more purpose.

Kroxigor are okay? Wish they had a 4+ save, or an upgrade for it. They are just hard to use. Getting that perfect distance with the skinks to set up a charge through them is hard. Then if you run them in a group of 4, be hyper vigilant about your movement. My krox could have saved my BSB versus teh chaos dwarves if they were 3 wide. Unortunately at 4 wide they couldn't wheel for the charge without first hitting my own units.

 

[Kalisto]

Your description about units it’s fully right, unfortunately our army isn’t one of the bests now. The only good combo are 2/3 carnosaurs. Slann cost too much and other units so too little for their costs. Exception are skinks with javelins. I agree that blowpipe are not that bad sometimes, if I play them I play 10 of them scouting or with vanguard

 

[discomute]

Welp went 1-4, but won Favourite Opponent/Best Sportsmanship so that was awesome
L- Wood Elves, 7-13
L- Tomb Kings, 9-11
W- Beastmen, 12-8
L- Empire, 8-12
L- Chaos Dwarves, 6-14

Chaos Dwarves were the most bitter because I made a really stupid mistake towards the end of the game that allowed my opponent to over run into my BSB chief, which caused at least a swing from 8-12 to 6-14. Also failed critical charges with my Old Blood that then allowed the hero that ATE my Slann AND BSB to run around. So IDK how that game couldv'e gone had my dice managed, because I was able to keep his bull centaurs distracted most the game with skinks.

I didn't really like the Battle Magic Ethereal Slann that much. I see how he can be usefull to get up some combat res maybe, but ultimately there are better/cheaper ways to do that. Maybe if Infantry was more important and relevant to the game this would be a great thing, as that would be the ideal target for his charge I think. Or if all the Battle Magic spells were useful. But overall the slann just left me feeling whelmed. It was really nice having a level 4, but he just isn't a great one.

For Saurus, definitely painting up and trying spears next time. Too many times where I just didn't get to attack. -1 AP is nice, but it is useless if the fighting rank is always dead.

A single unit of blowpipes wasn't the worst thing. A couple of times where being -2 and fishing for 6s was fine because I was going to need 6s to wound anyway. And then there were a few times where I was still and got full shots at full BS. So yeah, not the worst. Still will take 3 units of Javelins first, and I would like to see if I like 4 unit as well, but one unit of 10 blowpipes was a nice option.

The Bastilidon REALLY needs fixing. He is so underwhelming on the table. Not tough or strong enough (S4 with a Thunderous Bludgeon makes no sense), only 4 wounds. Thing is bulkier than a steg, so from a logic perspective I already didn't like it, but in game it just never seems to deliver. Only useful thing is a 3+ save and stubborn. But if they wanted to make it interesting it would be unbreakable. That would maybe give it a bit more purpose.

Kroxigor are okay? Wish they had a 4+ save, or an upgrade for it. They are just hard to use. Getting that perfect distance with the skinks to set up a charge through them is hard. Then if you run them in a group of 4, be hyper vigilant about your movement. My krox could have saved my BSB versus teh chaos dwarves if they were 3 wide. Unortunately at 4 wide they couldn't wheel for the charge without first hitting my own units.

Great write up and you're correct on all accounts. It really annoys me Kroxigor have the same toughness and worse armour than the Saurus, surely they should be tougher? T5 would make them unique and I'd be happy to pay. At minimum their scales should be equivalent to full plate.

I have used blowpipes a lot and never made it work for me. Except once which was an opponent being silly charging a gorgon at me.

Slann and battle I think is best option but the Slann is just so overcosted it hurts.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Great write up and you're correct on all accounts. It really annoys me Kroxigor have the same toughness and worse armour than the Saurus, surely they should be tougher? T5 would make them unique and I'd be happy to pay. At minimum their scales should be equivalent to full plate.

I have used blowpipes a lot and never made it work for me. Except once which was an opponent being silly charging a gorgon at me.

Slann and battle I think is best option but the Slann is just so overcosted it hurts.

Yeah. The Skink gimmick is nice for protection from shooting but krox are meant for combat and that's where most of the damage of the game occurs. And they just don't feel built for it like other monstrous infantry. No way to get a better save. No charge abilities or armour bane. They don't even get impact hits.

A lizardmen player must've been the bane of the dev's existence in previous editions, because at every opportunity to make lizards comparable to other armies, they fall short.