AoS Mathhammer average marshal statistics of the Seraphon

Ivor · Mar 8, 2020

Hi All!

I made an excel table comparing unbuffed damage.
Note that skinks are easier to buff than saurus.

My conclusion is that on all fronts, salamanders are just an amazing deal.
The starpriest buff also really helps because its so easy to get +1 to hit and we have large volume of attacks.
The scarveteran on carnosaur is a great deal, especially if you give him an artifact, but stegadons seem to underperform.
Lastly saurus warriors can do nice damage when you include them in the battalion for the starlight suballegiance.

The underlined dmg is the dmg versus a 4+ save factoring the rend.

I'll gladly share the excel file to share the calculation but I don't know how to via this forum (and I don't have fancy office sharing capabilities

)

Ivor · Mar 8, 2020

I also have a smaller formatted one. This one is a bit easier to read. All numbers are per 100 points spent and without buffs unless specifically mentioned.

Erta Wanderer · Mar 8, 2020

Ivor said:
Hi All!

I made an excel table comparing unbuffed damage.
Note that skinks are easier to buff than saurus.

My conclusion is that on all fronts, salamanders are just an amazing deal.
The starpriest buff also really helps because its so easy to get +1 to hit and we have large volume of attacks.
The scarveteran on carnosaur is a great deal, especially if you give him an artifact, but stegadons seem to underperform.
Lastly saurus warriors can do nice damage when you include them in the battalion for the starlight suballegiance.

The underlined dmg is the dmg versus a 4+ save factoring the rend.

I'll gladly share the excel file to share the calculation but I don't know how to via this forum (and I don't have fancy office sharing capabilities )

thanks a bunch this makes my job easier . i wount be able to get to all of them for at least a week

Asamu · Mar 8, 2020

Erta Wanderer said:
new stats attacks against 5+save
suntooth maul and bight.................warblade and bight.........warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight

.

.

.

new stats attacks against 6+save
suntooth maul and bight...................warblade and bight.............warspear and bight......Great blade and bight

.

.

.

Something seems off in your math on the new stats here.

Vs a 6+ save, the new Oldblood should be averaging ~3.222 damage with the maul/greatblade, or ~2.87 damage with a warblade. That's in coalesced, but that's only adding ~0.278 to the damage because of the extra bite, so the average should be super close to 3. The math you have there for the maul is averaging ~2.03 damage, which is drastically lower than it should be.

It looks like maybe you forgot about the exploding hits with the celestite weapons?

Ivor said:
Note that skinks are easier to buff than saurus.

No? Skinks have cheaper buff characters, but they're definitely not easier to buff, given that saurus have more buffs they can be given and Saurus lists get more access to CPs (or at least CP recovery) to grant those buffs.

Skinks have 1 +1 to hit buff and 1 +1 attack buff (for melee only), both from command abilities, and then Serpent staff for the mortal wounds on 6s.

Erta Wanderer · Mar 8, 2020

Asamu said:
Something seems off in your math on the new stats here.

Vs a 6+ save, the new Oldblood should be averaging ~3.222 damage with the maul/greatblade, or ~2.87 damage with a warblade. That's in coalesced, but that's only adding ~0.278 to the damage because of the extra bite, so the average should be super close to 3. The math you have there for the maul is averaging ~2.03 damage, which is drastically lower than it should be.

It looks like maybe you forgot about the exploding hits with the celestite weapons?

No? Skinks have cheaper buff characters, but they're definitely not easier to buff, given that saurus have more buffs they can be given and Saurus lists get more access to CPs (or at least CP recovery) to grant those buffs.

Skinks have 1 +1 to hit buff and 1 +1 attack buff (for melee only), both from command abilities, and then Serpent staff for the mortal wounds on 6s.

i did forget the exploding 6s but that got fixed in the new comparison that is coming out either to day or tomorrow. i was working from the bad image things should be better soon and it will have all the units
not my best work but i did throw it together in under an hour

Ivor · Mar 8, 2020

Asamu said:
Something seems off in your math on the new stats here.

Vs a 6+ save, the new Oldblood should be averaging ~3.222 damage with the maul/greatblade, or ~2.87 damage with a warblade. That's in coalesced, but that's only adding ~0.278 to the damage because of the extra bite, so the average should be super close to 3. The math you have there for the maul is averaging ~2.03 damage, which is drastically lower than it should be.

It looks like maybe you forgot about the exploding hits with the celestite weapons?

No? Skinks have cheaper buff characters, but they're definitely not easier to buff, given that saurus have more buffs they can be given and Saurus lists get more access to CPs (or at least CP recovery) to grant those buffs.

Skinks have 1 +1 to hit buff and 1 +1 attack buff (for melee only), both from command abilities, and then Serpent staff for the mortal wounds on 6s.

What I meant with easier to buff is that skinks can get the buff from 1 cheap hero: the priest. Which can also give them +1 save and run and shoot/charge. Which for the salamanders is amazing.

Acehilator · Mar 8, 2020

Asamu said:
No? Skinks have cheaper buff characters, but they're definitely not easier to buff, given that saurus have more buffs they can be given and Saurus lists get more access to CPs (or at least CP recovery) to grant those buffs.

Skinks have 1 +1 to hit buff and 1 +1 attack buff (for melee only), both from command abilities, and then Serpent staff for the mortal wounds on 6s.

One +1 to hit buff without CP cost (Master of Star Rituals on a Skink Priest)
In Fang of Sotek they can attack twice per turn.
As Coalesced they can get another free +1 to hit on two units from Shadowstrike Temple-Host.
At 18" range, with all buffs also active for melee in pinch.

Just all around amazing too. While I am still torn about now being the real blunt instrument in The Plan of the Old Ones instead of a cerebral one, the vastly improved array of useable and really strong units just cannot be denied.

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

ok a finish the comparisen between old and new combat stats. i had to break it down in to units to share it.
a few things of note i do not include alphas they are often to small to matter, there are all unbuffed unless the buff comes from the unit itself so rippers have their toad bonus but not the chiefs command point buff, those are coming later in a unit break down
i probably made mistakes let me know if you find any

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

LizardWizard · Mar 9, 2020

Erta Wanderer said:
bastiladon
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sze2-mGXFwoMKMKd?e=8P2BoO

chameleon skinks
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxq_IRDRXsyES5JT?e=7yzD76

EotG
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syAHLncXcKKLHSBg?e=AmPpto

kroxigor
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sx4RBreXxuPOBcPR?e=IB8NsV

razordons
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxyZ7SrwCS_pmNMZ?e=xpiane

salamanders
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxdMiUS1EY__MGdM?e=xlUes0

ripperdactals
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxjjplVTIhVlrDkE?e=HA6gvl

teradons
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxFvVBOhe2yx5duS?e=adZu83

trogladon
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szpJu4ApWV0lDwXu?e=nRtcbi

warriors
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxQgBS978Ch4owRO?e=ohO8UP

knights
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxVbk91Hh-SFhch2?e=RMWfRE

guard
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxYRaY-4GrK-WBkB?e=wOlXXG

skinks
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxPz0ap-kcFO3MrB?e=8ekhmL

slann
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szSBsYbe90qjrCEK?e=jH5kKS

stagadon
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szn5gDNaQ_fteIN2?e=gmydvs

starseer
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szGwtbU2h2JHk9Pq?e=B8wArO

starpriest
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sy_i9Ga2mkl8rXi9?e=PlJASC

skink priest
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sy1gRcjJJTOIA1Wb?e=SsAhzb

sunblood
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syzkEWYg92V5U9dI?e=hz1xfz

astrolith bearer
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syKDEyYv0zc66ySa?e=EwWoBf

eternity warden
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syTWDDw5ZJjRSJV8?e=RgExXt

old blood on carnasuar
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syfw7Y0cXeKyXUFp?e=IP46Bh

oldblood
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syZS8o2jeTVYuE8y?e=plIG9c

scarvetran on carnasuar
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syl5jQsYrjvs0D8t?e=61Z5jx

scarvetran on cold one
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sypr-S3rRca8O4NS?e=ZFm5MN

You're awesome!

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

LizardWizard said:
You're awesome!

i try

LizardWizard · Mar 9, 2020

So, Terradons and Krox were the big winners after all it seems. Specially when you also consider their point reductions.

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

LizardWizard said:
So, Terradons and Krox were the big winners after all it seems. Specially when you also consider their point reductions.

well teradons lost all their combat stats it's now MW or go home.
krox got good(represent!) and yes the drop in points is what did it. that and the skink buff that i didn't factor in.
themain thing about those 2 that makes them good is they don't need to be buffed a lot of our units you have to build your army around them but salamanders krox teradons they can just go in to fill points

LizardWizard · Mar 9, 2020

Erta Wanderer said:
well teradons lost all their combat stats it's now MW or go home.
krox got good(represent!) and yes the drop in points is what did it. that and the skink buff that i didn't factor in.
themain thing about those 2 that makes them good id they don't need to be buffed a lot of our units you have to build your army around them but salamanders krox teradons they can just go in to fill points

Yep, Skink units across the board are less reliant on their synergies, yet they have more synergies that are easier to get. Those factors combined really add up. Ripperdactyls being able to boost from CP farm might make them better than they were on base warscroll after the point reduction. Losing Shadow strike and mass rerolling is huge though.

ILKAIN · Mar 9, 2020

LizardWizard said:
Yep, Skink units across the board are less reliant on their synergies, yet they have more synergies that are easier to get. Those factors combined really add up. Ripperdactyls being able to boost from CP farm might make them better than they were on base warscroll after the point reduction. Losing Shadow strike and mass rerolling is huge though.

loosing "swooping dive" HURT!!!

LizardWizard · Mar 9, 2020

ILKAIN said:
loosing "swooping dive" HURT!!!

Wish we had rend -1 to make up for it. With no rend we can really only go after other glass cannons (which will be harder without 3" SS) or rely on mass attacks. And mass attacks are gonna be harder to stick without those rerolls.

Nart · Mar 9, 2020

So is it any worth in fielding 6 ripperdactyls? I don't want the guys to be shelved for next 5 years!

I also don't get why kroxigors are suddenly so much better. Their stats didn't improve and they don't have much synergies. Can someone explain me, please?

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

Nart said:
So is it any worth in fielding 6 ripperdactyls? I don't want the guys to be shelved for next 5 years!

I also don't get why kroxigors are suddenly so much better. Their stats didn't improve and they don't have much synergies. Can someone explain me, please?

the skink buff whent from reroll 1s to wound to +1 to hit so when neer a skink unit (half our army) 3 krox deal almost as much damage as a buffed block of 20 warriors and they don't need command points to pull it off. they move 8 and don't need heros they are a great mobile hammer

Nart · Mar 9, 2020

So a unit of 6 will hit as good as 40-men block of saurus and needs only a skink hero nearby to give +1 to hit and reroll 1's? Wow, I suddenly love mini's and lore. Strange.

Erta Wanderer · Mar 9, 2020

Nart said:
So a unit of 6 will hit as good as 40-men block of saurus and needs only a skink hero nearby to give +1 to hit and reroll 1's? Wow, I suddenly love mini's and lore. Strange.

doesn't even need to be a skink hero you can use stegadons or salamanders to as they all have the skink key word. so krox make great body guards for your stuff

AoS Mathhammer average marshal statistics of the Seraphon

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