AoS Magic Ideas

[Canas]

And a new version.


In this version:

• Removed the casting bonus for the higher level wizards, they're powerfull enough.
• Greatly reduced the effect & reliability of the Generate spell. The previous version would allow 1 summoner backed up by some wizards chaincasting generate to reliably summon enormous hordes, the only real counter being sniping the summoner.
• Changed the availability of the different lores to fit more with AoS s opposed to the old WHF factions.
• Started rules for fielding wizards in armies belonging to a different faction. I think the first attempt will probably be sufficient for individual factions, but I'm not sure how it'l work out for grand allegiances.
  

Still to do:

• Create distinction between wizards that currently have similar power but shouldn't fluffwise (e.g. starseers and starpriests)
• Add in the remaining lores like the little waagh.
• Further attempt to create something vaguely resembling balance

 

[Canas]

Added in rules for using the existing official spells using a fairly simple conversion for the damage.

• Damage spells now deal twice the damage, but with a 4+ save roll instead of being mortal wounds. Trading the reliability of mortal wounds for potential higher output, the average is still the same.
• Non-damaging spells should not be particularly more powerfull than my other spells I don't think they need any additional rules.

This should at least prevent mortal wound spam, and could potentially be used for other sources of mortal wound spam as well.

To be honest I would rather have given all units a seperate magical & physical save stat, but that'd require me to literally go through every single unit in the game and figure out some logical and balanced stat. And unfortunatly I do actually have stuff to do sometimes, so sadly I don't have the time

What still concerns me though is spells like the magister's bolt of change that have a secondary effect based on damage caused. The increased potential damage could be devestating. So I'd like to see how that turns out.

Still to do:

• Create distinction between wizards that currently have similar power but shouldn't fluffwise (e.g. starseers and starpriests)
• Add in the remaining lores like the little waagh.
• Further attempt to create something vaguely resembling balance

 

[Canas]

Changed the rules for generating reinforcement points slightly. There is now a bonus depending on wizard level & a misscast will cause you to lose points.

It encourages the use of higher level wizards to generate points, which prevents them from lobbing fireballs into your face,thus making some tradeoff.

It the miscast penalty means that you need to field a rather large amount of wizards, even if they are higher level, which should make spamming reinforcements fairly difficult (bar exceptional Lucky rolls with the generate spell). Admittadly, if a summoner is allowed to summon more wizards to generate more points to summon more wizards to generate more points to summon more wizards........... and so on, he will eventually overwhelm you, but frankly at that point you kinda deserve to lose

I'm fairly confident about these values for the summoning now.

 

[ljwylde]

Fantastic work @Canas! I think a nice way to vary damage/ strength of spells could be to add rend and decrease number of wounds, or to keep rend at '-' and cause proportionally more wounds

 

[Canas]

Fantastic work @Canas! I think a nice way to vary damage/ strength of spells could be to add rend and decrease number of wounds, or to keep rend at '-' and cause proportionally more wounds

Mm, I've used rend in a couple of the spells I added, and in the case of the lore of metal it even inverts save values (so squishy stuff is suddenly nearly imprevious to damage). There's some basic variation right now, but my main focus is on getting a stable base for how magic should work. The thing I'd most like to fix right now is find some way to distinguish the various wizards that should have different levels of power, but don't in the official rules. E.g. a starseer & a starpriest are the same level in my system and that feels wrong... Once I've figured that out I'l look into improving th spells again.

On that note, does anyone have any ideas what could be used to distinguish between wizards that should have a different powerlevel but don't? A slann and a starpriest have clear differences in the official rules by having the slann be able to cast 3 spells. But a starpriest & starseer have nothing distinguishing them in the official rules to base things on.

 

[Bowser]

Mm, I've used rend in a couple of the spells I added, and in the case of the lore of metal it even inverts save values (so squishy stuff is suddenly nearly imprevious to damage). There's some basic variation right now, but my main focus is on getting a stable base for how magic should work. The thing I'd most like to fix right now is find some way to distinguish the various wizards that should have different levels of power, but don't in the official rules. E.g. a starseer & a starpriest are the same level in my system and that feels wrong... Once I've figured that out I'l look into improving th spells again.

On that note, does anyone have any ideas what could be used to distinguish between wizards that should have a different powerlevel but don't? A slann and a starpriest have clear differences in the official rules by having the slann be able to cast 3 spells. But a starpriest & starseer have nothing distinguishing them in the official rules to base things on.

Well it does have a much better spell, and a more unique ability. Maybe access to certain spells for wizard level. Loke a must be level 2 caveat for the biggest baddest spell.

 

[Canas]

The issue is that there's nothing in the official rules that can be used to say that a starseer is a level higher than a starpriest. Right now I'm using the amount of spells they know as a base-value, which works to for example distinguish a slann from a starseer. And I've added some rules to distinguish between the various races which makes the average seraphon more powerfull than the average aelf which is more powerfull than the average human by giving them easier acces to higher levels. But there's no difference between the starpriest & starseer that works for this.

And they're not the only ones with this problem.The skaven have it even worse. A skaven greyseer only knows 1 spell, an archwarlock knows 2. This would make the archwarlock significantly more powerfull in my system which is very very wrong...

 

[Canas]

And a new draft:

• Redid magical affinity so it has more of an influence
• defined which factions have what affinity for magic (roughly)
• Made an exception for tzeentch as they actually have a reasonable distinction between their various wizards so affinity is less needed here. Also with 90% of their roster being wizards they'd benefit a tad much
• Added in a clause that allows you to use the affinity rules to make distinction between stuff like a starpriest & starseer, it's not perfect and I can't write down a definity rule for when to use it. But it should at least give you the tools you need to do so if you find their base-abilities don't distinguish them enough.

As GW improves magic & more factions get more fleshed out wizards like tzeentch has I will eventually remove affinity for the most part, probably leaving only the cost of upgrading & the maximum achievable level eventually.

Anyways, I think I have something resembling a base for a magic system now. And although it is becoming a lot of text, I don't think it is particularly complex. Most of the rules I made are about how to field a wizard, and a lot of it are essentially just lists, which take a lot of space but aren't complicted. The actual use of magic is still straightforward I think.

Still to do:

• Add in remaining lores
• diversify spells
• Create more advanced interactions
• Limit spells based on level so a more powerfull wizard gains more significant advantages, making upgrading more valuable.
• Create balance

Edit: added in a rule for translating damage in the case of spells like a lord of change's infernal gateways. The extra step after succesfully casting a spell to determine if any damage is actually suffered makes mortal wounds acceptable here. Furthermore, changing it to dealing normal wounds would give it the potential to do double damage, which for these kinda spells would rapidly spiral out of control as they tend to have rules like for each model in the unit, or throw 9 dice, which can add up rather quiclkly..

 

[PhoenixTheCat]

I read through the current state of the PDF and I'm wondering something about the Transformation of Kadon spell. It says "Wounds carry over, so reverting back might kill your wizard." If a starpriest turned into a salamander, would you have a salamander with four wounds, or would reverting back turn the starpriest to three wounds?

 

[Canas]

I read through the current state of the PDF and I'm wondering something about the Transformation of Kadon spell. It says "Wounds carry over, so reverting back might kill your wizard." If a starpriest turned into a salamander, would you have a salamander with four wounds, or would reverting back turn the starpriest to three wounds?

No, turning into a salamander would create the salamander with 3 wounds and reverting back to the starpriest would give the starpriest 4 wounds.

However, if you transform into say a carnosaur and suffer 6 wounds and then transform back you'd be a very dead starpriest as those 6 wounds are more than a starpriest can take.

 

[Canas]

And a new version:

• More spell interaction
• More differences between the various schools
• Limits based on wizard level
• Something that should be playable, though I doubt it is balanced

Up next:

• Get Guinea pigs to playtest for me who volunteers? I promise it won't be too painfull.
• Add in the missing lores.
• Create balance.

 

[PhoenixTheCat]

@Canas, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't really understand it when I first read it. Then again, I never experienced the complex magic of WHFB, just AoS.

 

[Canas]

I'l change the wording in the next draft to make it a bit clearer. And I'm not experienced with WHFB either, so no worries. I just make it up as I go, and tend to get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to into these kinda things

 

[Canas]

• Added in the summoning rules that I somehow lost.
• Added in a rule to make summoning charges possible.
• Added in a rule to passivly generate a very low amount of reinforcement points to allow a losing summoner to Always make a last ditch attempt at summoning something, anything to postpone the inevitable.
• Added an introdcution in the document so that if it ever starts floating on the internet people actually know what it's about

Edit: changed the passive generation slightly to stop people from stacking a bunch of wizards to make it considerably better than it should be.

 

[Canas]

• Added new rules, which for some reason I started a new post for, but Il keep this post up to date to keep everything in one place.
• Divided the rules in Essentials and Advanced rules
• Added a picture of a slann
• Generally improved the document

I think it's actually starting to look decent.

 

[Canas]

• Readjusted the spells I've made up to be in line with existing spells

 

[Canas]

• Changed some damaging spells around to be more interesting than just "deals X damage", there are now moving vortexes which can screw your own lines over among other things, o joy

Edit: now with the correct file.

 

[Canas]

• Specificed more ways to generate reinforcement points
  • There are now 2 mechanics generating a starting pool.
  • There is a mechanic to generate points on stuff dying. This reinforces the neverending horde that is summoning daemons & guarantees a summoner should Always have some points.
  • There is a spell wizards can use to generate points.
• Added in a rule to allow "minor" reinforcement mechanics like a pink horror's icon bearer or a pink horror spitting to not immeadiatly sap your entire reinforcement pool in turn 1.
  • These mechanics are free until 10% of your starting points have been used by them, after that they use the normal summoning points.
• Added in rules to weaken non-hero casters a bit, they can no longer cast every basic spell they're much more limited now.
• Added in a new basic damage spell to give everyone a basic offensive spell since not all wizards will have this. It's horrendously weak & ineffective, but it's something offensive in the basic spells.

 

[Canas]

Some small balance changes & changed the fires of battle rule to be a bit simpler to use.

 

[Aginor]

Ok that's a lot to read.
Some great stuff in there. Keep it going!