8th Ed. Magic Against O&G

[Idura]

I'm pretty new to warhammer, only been playing since may this year and only against O&G which my friend plays... We usually play 2500p at the moment and i really really have no idea what to do against him. At the moment he's fielding: 3 spear chukka, 2 rock lobba, 1 doom diver, 40 big uns with morks spirit totem and 5-6 lvl 1 shamans, one has the sneaky stealing staff...

Thats the standard he goes with every game, rest of his army is usually changed before each battle we have but the badass really annoying facts are:

He ALWAYS ends up having alot more dispell dice then i get power dice. Spirit totem gives him +3 dice, sneaky stealing takes away 1 dice from me and gives it to him AND he gets to roll 5-6 time to get more dices compared to me as a regular lizzie player who has a slann and a priest(usually on eotg) .

Now, what do i do :s. I get basicly one spell in with irressistable force if im lucky, i read everywhere that lizardmen kicks ass in the magic department but i have yet to see it .

The Game last night was a horror movie... First round consisted of him giving my steg 3 wounds, killing my oldblood and all crew of one salamander... I just dont have an answer to all his missile fire which seems to cost him almost nothing in points :s. Halp guise!

Consider the facts that im probably not a very good player and i appriciate all advice and critisism i can get . And this is my first post here! Hi everybody! ))

//Tomas

:Edit:

You might want my armylist right:
Slann, focus rumination, cupped hands, bsb
oldblood, glittering scales, aura of quetzl, fencers blades

Skink priest on steg with eotg, dispell scroll
scar vet, hide of the cold ones

19x2 saurus core, hw shield
10x3 skink skirmisher, blowpipe

20 tg
5 cold one cav

1 salamander
1 razordon

Cheers .

 

[Juhaaha]

drop Scar vet, you dont really need him. Take heavy armour which gives 4+ ward for your oldblood, drop AoQ and take some nice magical weapon (piranhablade, WS10 /I10 weapon are all nice)

Take all spells, cogitation/MR3 for your slann. Use Lore of Life (doh!)

Drop Razordon, take sallie instead.

Drop Cold one Cavalry, take 1-2 unit of 6 Camo skinks and/or some Terradons. They help a big time vs all those warmachines

Consider also taking "normal" Ancient Stega over Engine. With Current TLOS and template rules they are pretty darn vulnerable and one shotted pretty often


Hope that helped

 

[JohnMavrick]

A couple units of Chameleons (about five to six each) and a couple of units of terradons (three each) will go a long ways to getting rid of those nasty war machines. Target priority should be spear chuckas, then doom diver, then rokk lobba.

Screen your saurus warriors with your skirmishing skinks, though he can still shoot at your saurus he'll have -2 to hit because of interveining units.

Flame his units holding his wizards in them with your salamanders. Ork and Goblin leadership sucks and you'll quickly see panics running them off the board. Two or three units of two salamanders each should do the trick. If the guy is retarded enough to leave his shamans out in the open hit them with your chameleons and terradons.

I'd keep your CoC. They have the same initiative as orks and they hit like a ton of bricks. Your going to do massive damage to units on a flank and you won't have to worry about pile in.

Just a few suggestions, these should help you get things going. If your still have some difficulties let us know and I can suggest a few tactics which will help you get your opponent into a great possition for you to charge.

 

[Caneghem]

Which lore do you use with your Slann? You could try for big spells to nuke the spirit totem unit, or spells to snipe characters and try to snipe the sneaky stick character. Other than that, you could try to just keep casting a bunch of low level spells with your Slann, rolling one die and getting the free die for each roll. This should help you make up the difference pretty quick.

 

[Idura]

drop Scar vet, you dont really need him. Take heavy armour which gives 4+ ward for your oldblood, drop AoQ and take some nice magical weapon (piranhablade, WS10 /I10 weapon are all nice)

But i like scar vets ((. Makes the unit look cool with not just stupid old saurus models . Yeh, the setup i used for the oldblood last time was for him to at least live through one round of combat with Grimgor... got plenty of other setups for him otherwise.

Take all spells, cogitation/MR3 for your slann. Use Lore of Life (doh!)

Cogitation seems pretty useless when facing 6 lvl 1 wizards tbh, mr3 was never needed last time and i think i'd love to save some points for other stuff. Lore of life has been tried on multiple occations from my side and... It just dont pack the punch i need. When you can get _one_ spell of each turn, what do you choose? Sure dwellers is kickass against weak goblins but they're not really the danger either .

Drop Razordon, take sallie instead.

True dat, just got the razzie and wanted to try him ;>. Another sallie coming next week.

Drop Cold one Cavalry, take 1-2 unit of 6 Camo skinks and/or some Terradons. They help a big time vs all those warmachines

Also true, i have 2 terradons, waiting on 2 more coming next week so i can field them at all. Camos i have none, but i spose i could paint some regular skinks to look weird ;>.

Consider also taking "normal" Ancient Stega over Engine. With Current TLOS and template rules they are pretty darn vulnerable and one shotted pretty often

I've been contemplating that aswell... But im sooo used to playing with the 5+ ward its really hard to give it up . Even if i lose it in early rounds...

Hope that helped

Always .

A couple units of Chameleons (about five to six each) and a couple of units of terradons (three each) will go a long ways to getting rid of those nasty war machines. Target priority should be spear chuckas, then doom diver, then rokk lobba.

Yes, thats the priority i'd chose as well... never tried chamos, will do next game .

Screen your saurus warriors with your skirmishing skinks, though he can still shoot at your saurus he'll have -2 to hit because of interveining units.

I screen with skinks yes, then use them as fodder for fanatics . Rule question though, if his spear chukkas is on high ground does the skinks still count as -2 hard cover?

Flame his units holding his wizards in them with your salamanders. Ork and Goblin leadership sucks and you'll quickly see panics running them off the board. Two or three units of two salamanders each should do the trick. If the guy is retarded enough to leave his shamans out in the open hit them with your chameleons and terradons.

Yeah... about that... he usually has his bsb in his biggest goblin unit and the general nearby so still haven't panicced them . The shamans are spread around though yes, usually hides his "foot of gork" shaman behind the hill with his spear chukkas ;>.

I'd keep your CoC. They have the same initiative as orks and they hit like a ton of bricks. Your going to do massive damage to units on a flank and you won't have to worry about pile in.

I like them too . Mainly for their staying power against zerg attacks.

Just a few suggestions, these should help you get things going. If your still have some difficulties let us know and I can suggest a few tactics which will help you get your opponent into a great possition for you to charge.

Thanks a bunch ).

Which lore do you use with your Slann? You could try for big spells to nuke the spirit totem unit, or spells to snipe characters and try to snipe the sneaky stick character. Other than that, you could try to just keep casting a bunch of low level spells with your Slann, rolling one die and getting the free die for each roll. This should help you make up the difference pretty quick.

I'd love to roll one die for a spell... problem is, one spell dispelled and you get broken concentration . No more slannspells that round... And a regular magic round looks like this...

winds of magic: 5+3 i get 8-1(sneaky stealing) he gets ... 5+3(spirit totem)+1(sneaky stealing) which then ends up with me=7 him=9 then the rolls for each spellcaster where he gets another 5 tries to roll a 6 for more dice...

Last time i tried lore of light for the first time, never got pha's protection of a single time though . No irresistable force for the whole game... managed to get bironas timewarp of once though with aoe effect... holy mother of jesus that turn made the whole game .

Most of the time im trying to keep my army alive for as long as possible until i get to cc where i usually kick some major butt, especially with the buffspells of light/life.. Never tried any other lore then those two...

 

[Kurlin]

I'd love to roll one die for a spell... problem is, one spell dispelled and you get broken concentration . No more slannspells that round... And a regular magic round looks like this...

This is incorrect, you only get broken concentration if you fail to meet the casting cost of a spell. Not if it is dispelled.

 

[Scarecrow]

I've fought an O&G army very similar to this, though with no goblins. The only way I can wrap my head around it completely forgo magic, except for magic defense (diadem of power and a dispel scroll and maybe a Channeling Staff). Cus you have the points take 3 old-bloods and some scar-vets, lots of skirmishers for screening/redirecting, a large anvil and a decent amount of hammers. And then your fluff (Terridons, Cham. Skinks, Salimanders). The idea is swamp his units with cheap skinks units to guard the anvil block, redirect charges so you get the flank with the hammers (CoC and Kroxigors and Stegadons) while your fluff takes out war machines and causes panic tests.

As for characters, I usually tailor them to the unit they will be joining and to what role they are needed to fulfill. Personally I find and Old Bloodd with the maiming shield, Cold One, and that new +3 ATK sword to be a deadly combination. Put him with a unit of 5 CoC and thats 19 Str 5 atk on the charge.

 

[Idura]

I'd love to roll one die for a spell... problem is, one spell dispelled and you get broken concentration . No more slannspells that round... And a regular magic round looks like this...

This is incorrect, you only get broken concentration if you fail to meet the casting cost of a spell. Not if it is dispelled.

I love you! As i said, we probably have quite a few rules not correct when we play since we're pretty new . This opens up a completely new tactic .

 

[JohnMavrick]

To answer your question in reguards to a spear chukka team being able to shoot over a unit of skirmishers if they're camped out on top of a hill;

The rule of thumb is true line of sight. If the crew can trace a line of sight to any model's head, torso, legs or arms (excluding banners and weapons and wings) they can see. So if they are on top of a hill they will likely have better LOS because of physically being higher. But being on a hill does not automatically give them better shooting position as it did in previous editions. Specific rules can be found on pages 10 and 118).