8th Ed. Lord Kroak Competitive?

[Ydran]

Hi,

With the beginning of 2016 me and my friends are starting a new Warhammer Fantasy League 8th Edition. Last year i played my Dark Elves, this year, I raise the difficulty as I'm going to field my new Lizardmen-army.

I thought about a lot of stuff how I could play the Lizards on a quite competitive level, without writing lists that aren't exiting to me anymore. To give some information about the meta and the league rules: we play 8th edition without end times, only 25% lords and heroes, no restricitons but those in the BRB. 2500 Points. Battleline. My enemies are Skaven, Dwarfs, Ogres and Demons.

I ended up with a list around Lord Kroak in a big unit of Temple Guard. I know this concept isn't new at all, but I would like to know, if you have any experience with it and can give me some advice. I like him a lot because he makes Temple Guard REALLY good, and basically also gives them the Mark of Nurgle. The fact that he has only one spell irritated me the first time I read his rules, but he can't lose it and spell it as often as he wants. This is really strong vs Dwarfs I suppose.

Here's a list I wrote for a start... I can change it anytime to fit to the opponent but I think the characters and Temple Guard stay like they are.

• Lords (400pts)
  • Lord Kroak (400pts)
    AB - Golden Death Mask, Wizard Level 4

• Heroes (419pts)
  • Saurus Scar-Veteran (177pts)
    Battle Standard Bearer, Cold One, Halberd
    • Magic Items
      BRB - Armour of Destiny
  • Saurus Scar-Veteran (152pts)
    Cold One, Halberd
    • Magic Items
      BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Glittering Scales
  • Skink Priest (90pts)
    Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 1
    • Magic Items
      BRB - Dispel Scroll

• Core (625pts)
  • Saurus Warriors (415pts)
    Champion, Musician, 35x Saurus Warrior, Standard Bearer
    
    
  • Skink Skirmishers (70pts)
    • 10x Skink Skirmisher
      10x Lustrian Javelins with Shield
  • Skink Skirmishers (70pts)
    • 10x Skink Skirmisher
      10x Lustrian Javelins with Shield
  • Skink Skirmishers (70pts)
    • 10x Skink Skirmisher
      10x Lustrian Javelins with Shield

• Special (805pts)
  • Bastiladon (150pts)
    Crew with Solar Engine
    
    
  • Ripperdactyl Riders (120pts)
    3x Ripperdactyl Rider
    
    
  • Temple Guard (535pts)
    Champion, Musician, 35x Temple Guard
    • Standard Bearer
      BRB - Standard of Discipline

• Rare (250pts)
  • Ancient Stegadon (250pts)
    Two Giant Blowpipes
    • Ancient Stegadon
      Sharpened Horns

 

[airjamy]

Seems like a reasoanble list, and to be honoust i have never seen a competitive Kroak list, so i do not know how well that would work. The biggest problem with Kroak is that he is expensive and does only one thing, and that is nuking if your opponent has lots of units. Against a death star, he does close to nothing, if your enemy has lots of well spaced out chaff, he does close to nothing unless your enemy makes a major mistake, and he gives nothing in the way of utility (cept giving your TG unbreakable, but lets face, CB LD10 stubborn rerrolable is unbreakable). My initial feeling is that he gives to little when compared to the toolbox High Slann with Soul of Stone, Channeling combo and reroll dispell attempts Slann, as everything he does can be done to an extent by a normal Slann, while the normal Slann does so much other things..

But if you want to try it, you should, you will certainly surprise people with this tactic, and as i said, i have no experience with it. Keep us up to date with your exploits if you do try it.

 

[Ersh]

Check ETC2015 lists, dual slann or kroak + slang lists, so he is OK . In your current list I don't like bastiladon, and imo gw > helberds

 

[Ydran]

okay thank you guys for your comments. Airjamy I agree with you that there is almost no difference between being unbreakable and being ld10/cold blooded with a bsb and stubborn. Also having only one spell that is not a buff or debuff but a direct damage spell that needs many targets around, sure is suboptimal in many situations.

However, one really good "buff spell" is permanently on my Templeguard! they are -1 to hit, which pretty much makes everybody but elves and characters hit them on 5's in close combat. If I want to I can throw 6 dice on wyssans to make them even meaner.

I also don't think that Lord Kroak is that expensive. Most of my Slann builds easily go over that 400 points mark. Sure he doesn't have that Harmonic Convergence, I will miss that but all in all I think his abilities are worth it.

@Ersh Bastiladon is mainly there because I never got to play test it and I like the idea of one-dicing the solar beam. GW had to leave because of point limit. And most of my enemies are I2/T4 so I feel in many situations not being ASL and only S6 could be the way to go. But like I said, I don't have that much experience with them lizards yet.

I'm overthinking the whole thing at the moment. Against Ogres I may leave Kroak out because of the Hellheart and the way I read the "First Generation" (I hope it's called like that, I got the german book) doesn't save me from it. I might rather build something around a Life-Slann and two Ancients.

Against Skaven I'm not entirely sure. The Itza Spell seems perfect and I sure can use some protection for my Templeguard but on the other hand, the most dangerous projectiles don't use the BS and Skaven don't care for super-elite infantry because they either throw slaves and it or the dreaded 13.

So I might take him against Dwarfs (if I take any other Slann builds, the cool spells get stolen anyway... not with Lord Kroak!) and Demons (3D6 hits. and for Nurgle some taste of his own medicine).

 

[Scalenex]

I haven't used Kroak in an actual game yet. But based on theoryhammer I'd leave the Solardon at home. You are probably not going to want to bother casting Beam of Chotec since you have the Kroak bomb. The Bastiladon's other purpose, roadblock is performed by two stubborn Ancient Steggy and 35 Temple Guard.

I'd consider using the Bastiladon points on another Skink Priest. Or maybe a few more flyers or a pack of Chamo Skinks. Maybe I'm biased but I see a Solardon as a crutch for an army lacking in direct damage. You got that in spades. I guess the Beam can inflict a lot of damage on a single target, something Kroak can't do, but the potential high damage is dependent on an above average d6 roll.

 

[themuffinman873]

I agree with Scalenex, get another priest. I would blow the extra points on outfitting them both with flying too (carpet on one, cloak of feathers on the other). Send one in each turn in a juicy spot and blast away. They will die, but hopefully you can get your points back. I have only run Kroak a couple times, with the flying priests it is amazing, however if you do that twice your opponent will learn your trick and probably counter it.

Vs dwarves there was a thread about some dwarf rune that said something to the effect of you cannot cast that spell any more for the game. It was a rather long rules interpretation battle, I dont remember the outcome, but would be worth finding and reading through so that you have a good argument if a dwarf player tries to castrate Kroak.