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8th Ed. Looking for help. Building 1760 point army vs. TK.

Lord Cedric
Terradon

Lord Cedric

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Hello. I am not new to WHF, but I am to the Lizardmen army - never played with one. I am looking for advice on building a legal 1760 point army vs. a friends Tomb King army using the new 8th edition rules. I know that 1760 is an odd number, but we thought that we'd keep the Lord and Rare choice down, but still have room for decent core and special's.
I have been reading the thread here on the forums adressing the 8th ed. TK, but I haven't seen suggested list yet to fight them, so thus this thread. :)
I do not have all the available models, but will list what I do have (please keep in mind that most of my models are not the current edtions.. some are from 5th edtion):

Saurus:
64 with hand weapons/shields (5th ed. models) including 4 sets of command.
36 with spears/shields (7th ed. models) including 2 sets command

Saurus Cold One Riders:
9 with spears/shields (7th ed. models) including 1 set command

Skink Cold One Riders:
7 with spears/sheilds (not sure.. def. oop - 2nd ed.?) No command. what are their stats?

Terradons:
5. Two with two riders and bows, the other 3 with 1 rider and javalins.

Jungle Swarms:
3 bases.

Salamander:
4 units with 4 skinks. (early edition on this one too).

Kroxigors:
8 models.

Skinks:
12 with javalins/sheilds (current ed.) No command
115 with bow and arrow (5th ed.) and 3 sets of command.
17 with blow pipes (7th ed.).

Chameleon Skinks:
6 models

Temple Guard:
16 models with full command

Character:
1 saurus hero/old-blood/scar vet on foot.
1 skink priest
1 slann (older edition)
1 Kroq Gar


Ok. I plan on getting another priest and eventually a slann, but probably not the slann before the game. Since there is a big difference in the look of 5th ed and 7th ed. saurus, I'm thinking I could use the block of 24 7th ed. as TG until I can get an actual unit. <---- added more models, made changes ^
I know it's not much of an army to work with, but any help and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
 
the skink cold ones no longer have stats as they aren't in the most up to date (7th) lizardmen army book.

other then that it looks like you'll need to take amost everything you have. well, not ALL your saurus and skinks, but in terms of different units, you'll probably use a unit of everything you have, with maybe the exception of the COC (and the skink cavalry as they dont exist anymore..) cold one riders are generally considered too expensive but some people really like them. just count on failing stupidity eventually, especially when you really really dont want to fail it.

a lizardmen list without a slann against tk is going to suffer, simply because tk are a magicy army and without your own magic to fit it /shrug i dunno. a skink priest is going to help a bit, but without adding that level 4 to your dispell rolls is really going to hurt.

thats really all the help i feel like i'm informed to give. haven't played 8th edition tk.
 
Thank you for the help! Yeah, I wasn't sure on the skink cold-one riders being playable as actual model. I would really like to get more kroxigors as Im thinking about having one unit of skinks with kroxigors filling in the second row.
I've been thinking heavily on my lack-of magic in this army from your advice and after reading up a bit on the TK's, I may just have to break down and purchase a slann for this battle. I know it would come in greatly, but didn't want to spend the money on one at the time. Wish they weren't so pricey. lol! Know anyone who would be willing to sell one reasonably? :smug:
 
with skink cohorts (non skirmishing ranked skinks you can rank with krox) you need 8 per 1 korxigor you use, so keep that in mind.

i'm generally a bigger fan of skirmishing skinks and saurus blocks instead of skrox blocks, but i've heard/read of people doing well with them. a slann with life makes them much more durable tho. skinks are going to die in droves to anything in close combat.
 
Alright. Looks like I will now have available in addition to my above list: 3 more salamanders with crew and a slann. The slann is is the older style... But a slann nevertheless. Hope this helps my list against the TK. Thank you all for your advice. Any more help would be appreciated. I know my opponent will be going in with some newest war machine models. Poison now affects all war machines?


*** I edited the original list to reflect these additions.
 
Ok. Here is my first attempt at choosing an army for this battle based on some the advice:

Max points: 1760

ttl points Unit Adds

305 Slann Mage Priest (Lore of Fire, Discpipline: Focus of Mystery, Divine Plaque Prot.)
133 Saurus Scar-Vet (Light Armour, Shield, Cold One, Burning Blade of Chotec)
315 Cold One Cavalry x7 (Musician, Standard, Sun Standard of Chotec)
275 Temple Guard x15 (Champ, Musician, Standard)
90 Terradon Riders x3
80 Salamander Hunting Pk. x1 (+1 skink)
250 Saurus Warriors x20 (Champ, Musician, Standard)
312 Skinks x25 and Krox's x3 (Brave, Musician, Standard)

1760

I know there is some concern with having Cold One Cavalry in games, but thought Id increase my odds by having the Scar Vet join-in along with the Burning Blade for a -2 armour save on the enemy. Also the Sun Standard will help protect them better from missle attacks. The Krox's will join the skinks for a single unit in hopes of protecting my poison attackers.

So, there it is. I am expecting tweaking, changes etc. and have yet to give this list a "trial run", but any more ideas, thoughts and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
Considering after researching the Skrox formation on these forums, I may want to change my Slann's lore to Lore of Life. The buffs seem to far outway the potential extra fire damage to undead. Thoughts/ideas? Thanks in advance!
 
I have yet to face the new TK yet, but I plan on taking Light when I do face them. I just cannot see not taking advantage of the extra d6 damage vs undead that the lore gets. Life is very good though.
 
Yeah. That's just it. I guess it can depend on your play style. But either you go for the buffs or the extra undead damage. Thanks for the input! :D
 
UPDATE: Alright. I was able to increase my model selection by quite a bit, giving my a wider range of a list to work with. I updated the initial posting of models up above to reflect this. Now with these additions, Im thinking of changing what Iv'e got for my list. Any further advice or should I just go with what Ive made? Again, thank you all for your help. It's much appreciated.
 
based on what youve listed, i would change it as such:
315 Slann Mage Priest (Lore of Light, Discipline: Rumination, Plaque of Tepok.), BSB
123 Saurus Scar-Vet (Light Armour, Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec)
296 Temple Guard x16 (Champ, Musician, Standard), Ironcurse Amulet
150 Terradon Riders x5
155 Salamander Hunting Pk. x2 (+1 skink)
155 Salamander Hunting Pk. x2 (+1 skink)
250 Saurus Warriors x20 (Champ, Musician, Standard)
312 Skinks x25 and Krox's x3 (Brave, Musician, Standard)

reasons in order: in such a small game, and with only 1 mage (level 4 to boot), you have the ability to dominate the magic phase. by giving him rumination and the plaque of tepok, you get 5 spells and an extra power dice for every single casting. lore of light is fantastic against undead and at buffing your CC units, so its a win-win really. lore of light is also one of the cheapest lores to cast at base value, so you can take a single dice + extra for nearly every spell cast, basically doubling your WoM roll if its bad. making him your bsb also allows your TG to always get that extra stubborn re-roll. some people will say its putting too many eggs in that basket, but id say if your TG and slann are running, your probably done for anyway :). plus it gives a safe place to hide your BSB from any sniping.

since i took out the CoC (really not a points efficient unit, though they can be decent as flankers, you have other units to do that), i took your scar vet off of his cold one so he can get a look-out sir from either the TG or saurus unit you put him in. id say TG if your looking to get them stuck in or the saurus if your looking to hit a flank hard with them whil your TG hold out.

temple guard, just added 1 more guy and the ironcurse amulet. always nice to get a save against any screaming skull catapults he might be bringing, and with only 16 your going to want to save as many as possible.

uped your terradons from 3 to 5. without chameleon skinks, these are your harrassers. use them for picking on other light cav units, necrosphinxs/warsphinxs, solo characters, screaming skull catapults, casket, etc. basically anything out in the open by itself.

salamanders are where its at in 8th edition. average toughness mostly and some flammable characters means these guys will take some big chunks out of any blocks of troops he has. be wary of archers and distraction units, like light cav.

last 2 units were fine for that size game. anyway, thats my 2 cents. take it for what its worth
 
Thank you very much for your help! I guess I was just a bit biased towards the CoC because my first 'n favorite army is the Brets.. so I like cavalry. lol. To swing my mind around the other way took some pull, but I like what you changed and the reasons behind it.
I new my Slaan needed some tweaking, but wasn't sure where.. so many options and to add the fact that Im just not experienced with playing Lizardmen, or against them either.
Im actually glad to see you added more terradons and sali's as I agree in that they will be very beneficial for this battle. The more poison attacks, the better imo and with flying to boot. The sali's seem quite powerful. I had originally thought of having at minimum 2 sali's, but because of the CoC that I felt I needed (well.. ok, more like wanted, but that was explained above) I just didn't have the points. And since the CoC is taken off, it freed up 20 more points from my Scar Vet's cold one which was no longer needed.
What else I wasn't sure about was whether or not I should have more skinks and/or krox's.
I will give this list a trial run and see how it goes! Again, thanks for your help. I'll give an update when I have one.
 
Dont count on dominating the magic phse against tk. they have really strong magic, and if you're counting on 1 dice plus the extra to cast your spells you're gonna run into a lot of instances where you dont meet the value and end your magic phase right away.

tk also have ways to passively add dice to spell casts and stuff, so its unlikely you'll be "dominating" the magic phase.

seems like terradons are just gonna fall over to archers. skinks poisoned shooting is amazing against any sphynx they bring so, might wanna keep that in mind as well.
 
Thanks for the tips, Putzfrau. I've been playing WFB for some years, but in all that time, I've never played with or against Lizardmen or Tomb Kings. Odd, but it's true. So I feel a bit uneducated with overall abillities. Throw in 8th edition and it's a bit daunting. lol.
So, do you have suggestions then on my Magic phase/troop/item selection? Also, should I take the Terradons, are you suggesting I give them a buff or a prot?
I will keep that poisoned shooting at the TK's sphynx to mind. I plan on writing some tactica down on paper to take with me to help keep my focus. :)
Again, thank for the help. Much appreciated!
 
im aware that the TK have passive abilities to add dice and boost casting, but at 1760 your not going to see tons of that. and 1 dice plus an extra plus 4 for your level gives you on average a total of 11, plenty to cast most spells. im not saying do it all the time, im saying do it when your WoM roll is low to maximize your spells.

if you remove terradons, id add chameleons for the same reason. they both have positives and negatives. one moves quicker, the other shoots more. if you take either, dont set them up across from archers, simple :)
 
yeah i'd say you're best bet is probably just to play and tweak play and tweak. try to stay aware of how effective your units are etc. tk armies can be pretty different so its hard to really say what'll be effective and what wont /shrug

good luck.
 
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