8th Ed. Looking for Experience with Skrox

[Maedhros]

I'm looking into expanding my lizardman force from the ~2k it's at now and am giving skrox a good hard look. While I plan to proxy them in for a fight or two first to learn I wanted to ask here what sizes and frontages you guys have found the most useful so far.

My current theoryhammer thinking is that a minimal frontage is best since the only attacks I'm particularly interested in dishing out are the krox hits and I'm expecting to take a lot of casualties so I will want as many ranks as possible.

I was thinking about 3 krox in a unit of 24 skinks (that being the minimum for that many krox) which would be a 6 x 6 brick. This brick costs ~301 with music and standard (no need for a champ), while that may not be exact as I don't have the book in front of me it's about right. The unit's goal would be taking down heavy flanker units. For example chaos knights, dragon ogres, doomwheels and hellpit abominations (my friends play CW and skaven).

I figure it's a good fit for this because most of those things will have no problem wounding saurus (so it doesn't matter that my T is low since they wound saurus on 2-3 anyhow), none of them generally have ranks, and all of them will be fairly easily wounded by the str 6 hits of the krox (I imagine the knights would actually give me the most problems).

My worry is that even on steadfast I'll only be leadership 7 out on the flanks and that I'll be chucking a 300pt unit at things that generally cost 150 (doomwheel) to ~250 (5 C. Knights). Since I'm fast and water strider I can probably get back in for a turn 5-6 flank if this unit can wipe it's opposition.

When I look at other things I could go spend my money on instead the two that come to mind are another 5 x 5 saurus brick (318 w/ music and standard) or an ancient steg (275).

The saurus brick is probably a bit more killy in a generalized way (thought it will have a harder time with T5 & 6 targets) but is much slower. It would give me 20 WS 3 Str 4 atks as opposed to the 6 ws 2 str 3 and 9 ws 3 (?) Str 6. This seems like a wash.

The steg on the other hand gives 2d6+1 (impact and T.stomp) Str6 auto hits, 3 WS 3 str 6 and 5 ws 2 str 3 hits on the charge. While the steg. has much better armor and T it will still fall over to high str hits and cannons will take it apart. Since the steg is stubborn it will take break tests on an unmodified 6 as opposed to the unmodified 7 of the skrox unit. At the same time while the units are equally mobile the steg can't deny ranks from the flank. The last minor boost for the skrox against the steg is that the skrox are core.

The last factor I'm thinking of is real world $ cost. The skrox unit will cost me ~$102.50. The saurus unit costs ~$70 (which still leaves me with 7 extra saurus to use elsewhere) and the steg only costs me $41.25. This says to me that the Skrox really need to fill their own role to justify that price tag.

Anyhow, enough of my rambling. How do you guys like to field your skrox units? What have your successes been like? And am I allowed to let the krox's tails hang out the flank of my unit (I don't see any reason why not but you never know).

 

[vapor]

22+2, FC. They'll surprise you will how well they do. Last Saturday mine took out Skulltaker and 3 Jugs unassisted... granted only 2 skinks and the krox survived, but the entire store went nuts cheering for them.


Edit to be a bit more specific.

In my 20+ games of 8th these guys have never let me down. Fast flankers that can pack a punch and often get overlooked when you drop everything else on the table, at least until they roll over a cav unit or combo charge into the flank of something nasty. They're great for breaking steadfast with 5 ranks and can also be used to hold something in place for a turn or two. You do want to avoid hitting elite infantry head on, but with M6 it's not that hard to get around to the side.

 

[strewart]

Firstly, thats a very well thought out and typed post, really good analysis.

Its a great point that you would be spending ~300 points to take out flankers which are typically cheaper, I guess you also need to consider what damage they would cause if you didn't position the skrox to face them though. Chaos Knights and Abominations in the flank? Big problems. Consider the unit as a part of your army as a whole, not just as a single unit.

I do think 24 skinks and 3 krox is a bit much for a flanking unit, that kind of unit can be pushing the main parts of the enemy line against most things. It would be a significant drop in points and money if you removed a krox to just take two for flanking purposes. Thats how I think you should try proxying, but of course we come back to how the game is played in each person's area, your opponents seem to be posting some quite heavy stuff out on the flanks so you might be better off going all out to win there.

The next thing I want to point out is that the width of the unit is less important now to protect you with stepping up rules and such. If your opponent goes 5 wide with chaos knights, there is nothing you can do to minimize casualties unless you don't go wide enough for a rank bonus which is silly, all of them will at least be able to touch a corner of your unit thus inflict their full number of attacks. Now in return, this is where it could be handy to be a bit wider than them since you will get more attacks back and any second rank skinks not covered by a krox will get to strike as well.

As to considering the ancient steg, well you said your friend's play WoC and Skaven neither of them have access to cannons. Skaven can have some artillery which would be dangerous for a steg, but I wager not too much. Chaos would need to get in combat, which is where you want the steg anyway so he might not be such a bad choice.

As to adding more saurus, it depends on how many you already have and what support they have. They are a great solid unit, but if there is nothing else fast or ranged around to help them they will struggle with the bulk of an army on their own.

I know I haven't given you a clear answer at all, but hopefully I have given you a few more points to consider in your deliberation. I really think all 3 options are quite viable and it depends mostly on what style of army you have and want, your specific opponents, and what you think would suit you best.

 

[Gor-rok]

I used Skrox extensively throughout 7th edition, and they've only gotten better. I run two 24 & 3 skrox units in every 8th ed. game, and they haven't disappointed me. Minimum frontage is best, as you've realized. The whole trick to using them lies in capitalizing on your mobility, and picking your targets.

Skrox are the offensive counterpoint to the slower, tougher saurus in my opinion. They've got speed, lots of ranks, and the Kroxigor are great can openers; unfortunately the fragile skinks will hand over a lot of combat res if you put them in the wrong situation. They definitely take a bit more planning to use effectively than saurus.

As such, I go after the small, hard hitting flanking units you described. Skrox are the perfect counter to something like Bloodcrushers, whose mighty killing blow attacks are largely wasted against the mass of their squishy bodies. You'll soon appreciate the 6+ parry ward the skinks now enjoy; then the Kroxigor can start laying the hurt on, and in a war of attrition will usually come out on top. They're not going away until the skinks are gone, and that should take a while.

White Lions, Bloodletters, Greatswords, and other small to medium sized infantry blocks of that nature (few, high strength attacks) are also viable targets, as long as you have a hard hitting backup flanker in reserve. You'll almost always have more ranks (remember to count your Kroxigor as two ranks), and they're not tar pitting any of your other units while they're stuck themselves with the skinks. That's when your cavalry or monster swoops in for the kill.

Things to avoid are the guys with a ton of attacks, be they weak or strong: Savage Orcs, double weapon Khorne Warriors, Plague Monks, etc. Your fragile skinks just can't withstand the amount of hits, and you'll lose a war of attrition long before backup flankers arrive.

Your war machine hunters need to be on time and in tune when big Skrox units are in your list; I don't think I need to elaborate on what template hits will do here.

One dissenting opinion: I always, always take a unit champion. He's not there for an extra attack, he's there to absorb those nine attacks from a rival Oldblood or other hero that would otherwise chew through the ranks like a hungry dog with a tray of peanut butter coated biscuits. The ever popular Lore of Life makes him that much better of an investment, as he'll rise up for challenge after challenge when you cast Rebirth on the unit.

Well, that's just my observations. Try using other models as proxy in a few friendly games, and see how you like them before shelling out any cash.

 

[Ilnar3]

i have to agree, skrox got better and better with 8th,
personally i try to use them instead of saurus against anything greater than S5 attacks, since they all wound on 2s anyway and they get the same save
with the exception of mauraders with great weapons all such units are either only S5 fot a single turn, or are hugely more expensive and/or usally with poor- medium armour
these are the kind of units skrox need to be fighting,
swordmaster, minotaurs with GW, (although if theres a lot of them you better have a lot of support nearby)
greatswords monsters ect.

personally i like 30/3 for my krox units ( makes a decent battleline) and they go through things like knights or units of warriors very nicely, since such units are generally fielded small, 12-16 models so steadfast isnt a problem

ive also found they hold up to plague monks very well. might just be me, but even the skinks are 4/4 to kill, very nice realy,

smaller units of 16/2 would make a decent medium cavalry units on the flanks, kicking in at what 160 points?

less bodies remember though, so nott as good a tarpit against knights ect.

 

[Maedhros]

Thanks very much for the feedback guys. All the target priority info you're bringing up here is very useful.

Stew, both skaven and chaos warriors have access to cannons (warp lightning cannons and hell cannons) though I'll freely admit my friends aren't using them yet.

As to what I'm running now I've been fielding two saurus bricks 5x5 (thinking about 6x4) centered around 20 TG with a slann. Then two lone salamanders and some Chameleon skinks. At 2k I think I'm putting in my ancient steg also and s. skinks to fill points. While I like life I've been toying with light and been very impressed by it.

I think I'll try that 22 skink 2 krox brick (5 x 6) with FC on the flank for my next game. 6 str 6 hits certainly won't down anything right away though. Against a doomwheels and dragon ogres I'll get ~2 wounds on average from the krox and anything I get from the skinks would be gravy. The wheel will put ~5-6 wounds on the skinks (there is a lot of random since it has random impact/grind and 2d6 str 2 hits from the rats) and three dragon ogres with extra hand weapons will do ~5 wounds. In combat res I'll generally be getting a CR of 6. Seems like the units are fairly matched. Spending only ~60 points for the third krox and more skinks is pretty tempting for that extra wound on average. Though at the same time the third krox wouldn't usually be able to strike at a well placed doomwheel (it's frontage is only 2) and 60 is nearly enough for another salamander or s. skink unit.

The 6 x 7 30 skink 3 krox unit sounds pretty stable too since that extra rank of expendable skinks is only 30 points.

Anyhow, I'll try these out in a game on Sunday and report back. Thanks again for the input.

 

[strewart]

Stew, both skaven and chaos warriors have access to cannons (warp lightning cannons and hell cannons) though I'll freely admit my friends aren't using them yet.

Oh yeah, I forgot the warp lightning cannon now counts as a cannon rather than having its own rules... I think both are fairly rare to see on the battlefield, hell cannons are pretty crazy.

 

[Dumbledore]

Every WoC player in my area that I've seen takes 1 or 2 Hellcannons, also if you check WoC threads on other forums they re a part of most lists.