7th Ed. Lizzy's v's Dark Elfs?

[Nexus]

To kill the ring of hotec is easy, its normally on a champion so either law of gold it or ust the lvl 1 Lore of metal spell and snipe the champion out of the unit, if its a back guard you kill the champion on 3s, if its a cold one you kill it on 2s. Problem solved.

Nah, it's a Hero on a pegasus. But that could work.

Hmm... what is this ring you all are talking about ?

The Ring of Hotek:

Any Wizard (friend or foe) attempting to cast or target a spell within 12" of the wearer wil suffer a mistcast on the roll of any double.

It's really annoying.

 

[DarkxLord]

Im note sure what your talking about. You just need to take lore of metal on the slan and cupped hands. First off hydras are easy to kill, if your taking metal you can cast spirit of the forge on it, 2d6 at str 5 no armor no regeneration. To kill the ring of hotec is easy, its normally on a champion so either law of gold it or ust the lvl 1 Lore of metal spell and snipe the champion out of the unit, if its a back guard you kill the champion on 3s, if its a cold one you kill it on 2s. Problem solved.

yeah, kill his anti-magic ring with magic. nice plan you have there.

 

[lupercal]

actually if you take the plus one to cast and only roll one dice it is not a bad idea since then you have no chance to miscast which is what it is doing to you

 

[Corbechev]

I have always had a hard time against DE, though I am quite new to the Lizarding way, but he is 14-2-0, the 2's being draws I creeped out with my Vampires and Ogres..

His newest army is pretty brutal, it consists of 2 Hydras, 1 Manticore with hero, 1 Black Dragon with Lord, 2 units of Cold Ones, one of which has the Ring of Hotek, 6-8 shades, two units of 5 Dark Riders, 1 unit or 6 or 7 Harpies, and 1 unit of 10 crossbowmen..

i know it doesn't have much meat to it.. but on turn 2 you have two hydras in front of you and a dragon and a manticore behind you.. it is hard to handle.

 

[Caneghem]

I have always had a hard time against DE, though I am quite new to the Lizarding way, but he is 14-2-0, the 2's being draws I creeped out with my Vampires and Ogres..

His newest army is pretty brutal, it consists of 2 Hydras, 1 Manticore with hero, 1 Black Dragon with Lord, 2 units of Cold Ones, one of which has the Ring of Hotek, 6-8 shades, two units of 5 Dark Riders, 1 unit or 6 or 7 Harpies, and 1 unit of 10 crossbowmen..

i know it doesn't have much meat to it.. but on turn 2 you have two hydras in front of you and a dragon and a manticore behind you.. it is hard to handle.

Blade of Realities... look at hydra leadership... bwahaha. Also BoR should make manticores and dragons sweat as well. Probably want some terradons to deal with shades and some dark riders (or harpies). The Cold ones will be annoying, be sure to pack your Engine. Lots of skinks as distractors will help. Salamanders could take out a cold one rider or two, maybe panic. If you go combat with an Oldblood you don't have to worry about his stupid ring.

 

[DarkxLord]

The thing about it is, if you don't go magic then he spent 25 pts on a ring, and scared you out of that phase of the game. if he hides the ring and turtles around it across the field there's not alot you can do. he prolly won't do that however, as the ring is more bark than bite. bring magic and drill something else, also don't forget, the ring doesn't affect magic that doesn't DIRECTLY affect a unit. i.e. comet, pit of shades, black horror, winds of undeath, flaming head.

 

[Cpeerson2000]

The thing about it is, if you don't go magic then he spent 25 pts on a ring, and scared you out of that phase of the game. if he hides the ring and turtles around it across the field there's not alot you can do. he prolly won't do that however, as the ring is more bark than bite. bring magic and drill something else, also don't forget, the ring doesn't affect magic that doesn't DIRECTLY affect a unit. i.e. comet, pit of shades, black horror, winds of undeath, flaming head.

Kind of beg to differ on this, Yes Flaming Head and Winds of Undeath would work but you have to be 12" from the ring. Also anything targeting inside that 12" radius is subject to the ring so Comet and POS even the Black Horror are subject to the ring.

 

[lupercal]

The thing about it is, if you don't go magic then he spent 25 pts on a ring, and scared you out of that phase of the game. if he hides the ring and turtles around it across the field there's not alot you can do. he prolly won't do that however, as the ring is more bark than bite. bring magic and drill something else, also don't forget, the ring doesn't affect magic that doesn't DIRECTLY affect a unit. i.e. comet, pit of shades, black horror, winds of undeath, flaming head.

Kind of beg to differ on this, Yes Flaming Head and Winds of Undeath would work but you have to be 12" from the ring. Also anything targeting inside that 12" radius is subject to the ring so Comet and POS even the Black Horror are subject to the ring.

if the faq that came out in jan '09 it says that anything targeted since you are not targeting anything is ok to drop comets and burning head since they don't target anything at least according to GW

 

[DarkxLord]

Black horror, and comet and pit of shades only affects the terrain, and not units directly. Think about it like this, if you can't use magic resistance against it... you can't use the ring against it. take black horror for example, you could in all actuality, hit 2 units with it. which units MR do you use? the answer is neither since it's only affecting the ground underneath the unit, and not the unit itself. on another note, black horror isn't directed to a spot until after a successful casting.

 

[Cpeerson2000]

Ok your right on the Comet not sure about Black Horror since my DE book is at work. but Pit of SHades is affected by the ring. The DE FAQ states that "as such spells are not ‘targeted’ at any specific point before being cast.". With the Comet you cast the spell and then place the marker. Pit of Shades you cast on any one unengaged enemy unit, aka targeting that unit. If Pit of Shades doesn't target the unit then by that same token Conflaguration of Doom and other non-magic missile types fall all under that same category.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Hi all,

Just a thought, the wording of the Cupped hands says it "ignores the miscast and the miscast effect is suffered by an enemy wizard in LOS... it doesn't actually say the spell still fails, this wouldn't matter normally as nothing can be cast on a 2, but if your "forced" to miscast, say by a certain DE ring, and your casting roll is sufficient to cast the spell...

maybe Im being too hopeful?

 

[Corbechev]

Hi all,

Just a thought, the wording of the Cupped hands says it "ignores the miscast and the miscast effect is suffered by an enemy wizard in LOS... it doesn't actually say the spell still fails, this wouldn't matter normally as nothing can be cast on a 2, but if your "forced" to miscast, say by a certain DE ring, and your casting roll is sufficient to cast the spell...

maybe Im being too hopeful?

Or if you used or 4 dice you can still make the roll and miscast, I can see your argument.

 

[lupercal]

that is a good point you might have something there by RAW but i wouldn't hold my breath on this one as i don't see it holding up in most arguments because even when the 2nd gen slann in our last book miscast the spell still wouldn't go off so i figure that they had similar intent but i wouldn't worry about the ring to much as most spells only take 2 or 3 dice which is a low miscast chance even with the ring but you can just find out where it is and ignore it if it worries you that much kill it in combat

 

[DarkxLord]

that is a good point you might have something there by RAW but i wouldn't hold my breath on this one as i don't see it holding up in most arguments because even when the 2nd gen slann in our last book miscast the spell still wouldn't go off so i figure that they had similar intent but i wouldn't worry about the ring to much as most spells only take 2 or 3 dice which is a low miscast chance even with the ring but you can just find out where it is and ignore it if it worries you that much kill it in combat

i think you have the right of it here. magic something else and kill the champ who carries it.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Either way, was thinking in a Slann based list, if you give him cupped hands, and Bane head, and use Lore of metal, you'd have 2 - 3 chances to take out the ringbearer via him alone.

1/ the No. 1 spell in lore of metal: character sniping (has been mentioned earlier) especially with the Bane Head making double wounds (If its always on the same character, and if its multi wound)

2/ The Law of Gold spell: attempt to nullify/ destroy it, even if its not destroyed you can nullify it for the turn

3/ If he's a mage and you DO miscast, throw it back at him (worth it just for humours sake if nothing else)

I know this involves using magic to try and take out anti-magic, but its probably one of the easiest ways to take it out without adjusting your plans or diverting lizard-power to chase it down. Any tactical sacrifices you make will fully justify the 25pts he's spent.

and I just remembered, I believe the ring affects his mages as well, not certain but I think I remember thats why my magic heavy DElf mate won't take it...

 

[Revered_Guardian]

the ring i believe only affects u if u target a unit withing its radious, and yes it does affect DE too.

Anyone thought about a assassinating terradon unit to get rid of the bearer?

 

[Caneghem]

the ring i believe only affects u if u target a unit withing its radious, and yes it does affect DE too.

Anyone thought about a assassinating terradon unit to get rid of the bearer?

I've thought about that.. a skink chief with a spear and venom of the firefrog would do a nice 3 x str 5 poison attacks on the charge... it is nice reliable damage against lots of things. Killing blow would be less reliable, and bane head only works against one caster. I figure if things are dire enough for me to want to take a character wizard hunting, I'll be looking at facing an army with two or more. Piranha blade is nice, but is a waste of points if I wind up charging something like a warmachine (and most other multi-wound models would slaughter the skink chief).. whereas str 5 poison should make even dwarves sweat. It might take a couple rounds to kill them all, but he's got a decent shot at doing so quickly. If the unit goes in with him, they should be able to polish off 3 dwarves.

But on the subject of wizard killing, my opinion is spear and venom on the chief, with light armor and enchanted shield for the 3+ save.

 

[anton]

Black horror, and comet and pit of shades only affects the terrain, and not units directly. Think about it like this, if you can't use magic resistance against it... you can't use the ring against it. take black horror for example, you could in all actuality, hit 2 units with it. which units MR do you use? the answer is neither since it's only affecting the ground underneath the unit, and not the unit itself. on another note, black horror isn't directed to a spot until after a successful casting.

You still get MR read the book if the unit is at all effected by the spell you may use there magic resistance. This came up about a month ago at my place and we had to look it up.

 

[asrodrig]

Hmm... what is this ring you all are talking about ?

It's called the Ring of Hotek, if I'm not mistaken. It's in the Dark Elf Army Book. Basically, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it causes enemy wizards to miscast if they roll doubles.

 

[Runax]

Quoted out of the Dark Elf codex:

"Talismans:

Ring of Hotek 25pts
Any Wizard (friend or foe) attempting to cast or target a spell within 12" of the wearer will suffer a Miscast on the roll of any double."

One of the problems with those spells that affect everything within 12" is that while it isn't targeted, your mage is still within 12" and will miscast on doubles. Another note is that while cupped hands probably would work and give your miscast to their mage, it's rare for them to actually take both to a game. If they have a ring of hotek, chances are they either have no mages at all, or a scroll caddy hiding in the back behind some terrain. I'm not familiar with cupped hands, but I think it needs an enemy mage within LOS to give the miscast to or you will still suffer the miscast. Any clarification on cupped hands?