AoS Lizards v. Ogres

[Ixt]

Hey, guys! Gonna get a test game in sometime tonight or tomorrow morning. I maxed the wound-per-army cap on both armies because, frankly, my Lizards are playing Ogres! Yikes.

Against most armies, however, I don't think that I would... it would be interesting to pull a sneaky 'Sudden Death' list on someone.

It looks like the Ogres will be getting Sudden Death in this one... and probably every match they play. I'm excited to see what happens, though. Both of these armies are loosely based on some old 3k tourny armies I found on Ogre Stronghold, and some of my 3k lists adjusted for AoS.

1 battalion each,
6 warscrolls each,
40 wounds per unit max,
255 wounds per army max.

Dashes belong to battalions, asterisks are warscrolls, double-backslashes are wargear.

Ogres 253 wounds, 52 models (59 w/ Gnoblar Scrappers)

Spoiler

Gutbuster Wartribe (Battalion)
-Tyrant (8W)
// 2x Bashers
-Butcher (7W)
// Cleaver
-7 Ogres (28W)
// Clubs & Blades (2), Crusher, Bellowers, Icon Bearers, Look Out Gnoblar
-7 Ogres (28W)
// Clubs & Blades (2), Crusher, Bellowers, Icon Bearers, Look Out Gnoblar
-7 Ogres (28W)
// Clubs & Blades (2), Crusher, Bellowers, Icon Bearers, Look Out Gnoblar
-10 Ironguts (40W)
// Gutlord, Bellowers, Rune Maw Bearers
-5 Leadbelchers (20W)
// Thunderfist, Bellowers

*5 Mournfangs (30W)
// Crusher w/ Pistol, Horn Blowers, Banner Bearers, Clubs & Blades (2)

*4 Mournfangs (24W)
// Crusher w/ Pistol, Horn Blowers, Banner Bearers, Clubs & Blades (2)

*Stonehorn (12W)
// Harpoon Launcher

*Stonehorn (12W)
// Harpoon Launcher

*Bruiser Standard Bearer (7W)
// Ogre Pistol, Club

*Gnoblar Scraplauncher (9W)
// 7 Gnoblar Scrappers

Lizardmen 255 wounds, 178 models

Spoiler

Saurus Host (Battalion)
- Saurus Oldblood (7W)
// Celestite War-spear
- 30 Saurus Warriors (30W)
// Celestite Spears, Alpha Talon, Wardrums, Stardrake Icons
- 30 Saurus Warriors (30W)
// Celestite Spears, Alpha Talon, Wardrums, Stardrake Icons
- 30 Saurus Warriors (30W)
// Celestite Spears, Alpha Talon, Wardrums, Stardrake Icons
-40 Temple Guard (40W)
// Alpha Guardian, Wardrums, Stardrake Icons

*10 Terradon Riders (30W)
// Alpha (of the Skies?), Sunleech Bolas

*9 Kroxigor (36W)
// 3 Moon Hammers

*21 Skinks (21W)
// Boltspitters & Clubs, Alpha

*5 Salamanders (15W)

*Slann Mage-Priest (7W)

*Saurus Scar-Veteran with Battle Standard (6W)

 

[Qupakoco]

I'm interested in hearing how it goes, but I'm also wondering why you've decided to limit army selections? Why not just try the rules out as is?

 

[Mr Phat]

... I'm also wondering why you've decided to limit army selections? Why not just try the rules out as is?

"I Deploy 5000 saurus in 5 units"
"I get sudden death then?"
"sure you just pick one mate!
Assassinate: There aren't anything to assassinate, the rules don't force me to deploy one.
Blunt: be my guest.
Endure: Good luck with that!
Seize Ground: Dont expect me to get to you huh?

"but, I dont have enough models to fight you straight on...."

"I AM THE BEST AOS PLAYER!!!"

 

[Ixt]

I'm interested in hearing how it goes, but I'm also wondering why you've decided to limit army selections? Why not just try the rules out as is?

Well, I'm not so sure that I trust the lack of a balancing mechanism. As much as I disliked the points system for Fantasy (it seemed fine in 5th ed. 40k, but when I picked up 8th... eh..), the whole 25% core thing, duplicate limits, etc. did make sense to me. It was also the only means by which I could look at new armies and reliably field a balanced list for purposes of testing.

There's also the thing of holdover inferior units from 8th. As Pinktaco pointedly asked a few days ago, "Why take Saurus Warriors when you could take Temple Guard?" The reason that I would take Saurus Warriors is because I can get a crap-ton of them in Battalions, and the Saurus Host rules/Oldblood make them pretty good. In fact, most battalions give you a crap-ton of something, and that something becomes significantly better... so if someone brings a battalion, then the other person probably should as well (otherwise, the wound caps start working against particular armies).

That said, I was lying in bed last night thinking, "What if someone wants to bring more than one battalion, or doesn't want to bring all those warscrolls?" I'm going to field those two lists as is, stick as tightly to the rules as possile, but I think I'm going to alter the parameters in my following test games to...

"1-2 battalions each (min. 1), up to 6 warscrolls," and the wound caps remain the same.

That way, lists don't become so predictable... unit sizes & the number of units aren't mostly equal on each side of the table, etc. Still, I think it's appropriate for each player to bring at least 1 battalion in a battle this size to keep the lists dynamic. Each player will have to really think about how they're filling their slots, the same way that we used to have to delicately spend points in 8th. My only concern is the High Elf Dragon Host... those dragons look mean, and the Conflagration ability is insane. That might upset the balance a bit, but I'll have to test it. It'll likely be my next matchup.

Anyway, I'm gonna get some food in my belly and start this test match between Ogres and Lizards!

 

[Crowsfoot]

Well, I'm not so sure that I trust the lack of a balancing mechanism. As much as I disliked the points system for Fantasy (it seemed fine in 5th ed. 40k, but when I picked up 8th... eh..), the whole 25% core thing, duplicate limits, etc. did make sense to me. It was also the only means by which I could look at new armies and reliably field a balanced list for purposes of testing.

There's also the thing of holdover inferior units from 8th. As Pinktaco pointedly asked a few days ago, "Why take Saurus Warriors when you could take Temple Guard?" The reason that I would take Saurus Warriors is because I can get a crap-ton of them in Battalions, and the Saurus Host rules/Oldblood make them pretty good. In fact, most battalions give you a crap-ton of something, and that something becomes significantly better... so if someone brings a battalion, then the other person probably should as well (otherwise, the wound caps start working against particular armies).

That said, I was lying in bed last night thinking, "What if someone wants to bring more than one battalion, or doesn't want to bring all those warscrolls?" I'm going to field those two lists as is, stick as tightly to the rules as possile, but I think I'm going to alter the parameters in my following test games to...

"1-2 battalions each (min. 1), up to 6 warscrolls," and the wound caps remain the same.

That way, lists don't become so predictable... unit sizes & the number of units aren't mostly equal on each side of the table, etc. Still, I think it's appropriate for each player to bring at least 1 battalion in a battle this size to keep the lists dynamic. Each player will have to really think about how they're filling their slots, the same way that we used to have to delicately spend points in 8th. My only concern is the High Elf Dragon Host... those dragons look mean, and the Conflagration ability is insane. That might upset the balance a bit, but I'll have to test it. It'll likely be my next matchup.

Anyway, I'm gonna get some food in my belly and start this test match between Ogres and Lizards!

Very interested in that report as me and my son have OK and LM

 

[Ixt]

Very interested in that report as me and my son have OK and LM

I made it to turn 2 so far. It's taking a bit of a long time for a few reasons.

1) I know none of the rules by heart yet lol.
2) I'm using Vassal 40K to play the game (talk about irony).
3) I'm also logging everything, taking screenshots and writing a battle report.

I will say this: Stonehorns are wicked, large units of Temple Guard are probably best against other large units of stuff but otherwise unimpressive compared to Saurus with spears, expect WAAC Ogre players to always take Endure, it's extremely important to prioritize uneven combats, battleshock really hurts ogres (at least, against us it does due to Stardrake Icons), Tyrants with dual clubs are INCREDIBLE (one just killed 20 skinks in a single turn), Salamanders are brutal, Sunleech Terradons are wicked in small groups/ambushing, BSBs are *awesome*, and this game is pretty damn fun. I'm hoping to have the entire report up tonight.

As of right now, the game is pretty evenly matched. A unit of Mournfangs & Ogres did just work together to completely wipe out my Terradons, however. That's gonna create problems. That said, the Lizards have cut down quite a lot of ogres in just one turn with most of the Saurus still on the board. I will say this: I think I fielded a pretty good Ogre list for killing LM, and a pretty bad LM list for killing ogres. But, we'll see what happens.

 

[n810]

should have added more ripperdactayls.

 

[Ixt]

should have added more ripperdactayls.

x_x What was I thinking! I learned my lesson by not IMMEDIATELY using my Terradons in the first round of combat. I instead focused on a Stonehorn, which was probably just as important due to how hardy (lolz) they are.

If I had used my terradons, on the other hand, it probably would have been a wash for the Ogres... that's a lot of attacks that re-roll misses AND wounds... I doubt they would have stood up to it.

 

[Ixt]

"I Deploy 5000 saurus in 5 units"
"I get sudden death then?"
"sure you just pick one mate!
Assassinate: There aren't anything to assassinate, the rules don't force me to deploy one.
Blunt: be my guest.
Endure: Good luck with that!
Seize Ground: Dont expect me to get to you huh?

"but, I dont have enough models to fight you straight on...."

"I AM THE BEST AOS PLAYER!!!"

Exactly! xD

 

[n810]

Ripperdactyl

Abilities
Voracious Appetite: Each time a model
from this unit attacks with its Vicious
Beak and scores a hit, immediately make
another hit roll against the same target.
Carry on until a hit roll does not score a
hit, then make any wound rolls.

Roll until you miss for each terradon

Swooping Dive: At the end of your
movement phase, you can declare this unit
will swoop down to attack the foe at close
quarters. If you do so, then in the following
combat phase you can re-roll failed hit and
wound rolls for this unit as the enemy reels
from the sudden assault. Until your next
hero phase, measure range and visibility
for models in this unit as though they were
on the ground

then do it again for each one

Toad Rage: In your first hero phase, place
a Blot Toad anywhere on the battlefield
for each of your units of Ripperdactyl
Riders. In each of your movement phases,
roll a dice and move the Blot Toad up
to that many inches. Blot Toads do not
count as enemy models to either side. If a
Ripperdactyl attacks an enemy unit that
is within 2" of any Blot Toad, it makes 3
attacks with its Vicious Beak instead of 1

make that 3 times

So when the swoop on a toad target, they attack 3 times each and reroll to hit and wound until they miss, and then do it again.

oh and they also get a claw attack and spear attack too.

don't forget you probably have 3 of these guys.

 

[Ixt]

Ripperdactyl

Putzfrau was right!! Every thread is eventually about rippers!!

I totally forgot about the keep-rolling-hits thing. Next time!

 

[Ixt]

Lizards won it!

Not by much, either. I'm off to bed now, but I'll have a written report and some pics tomorrow.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Lizards won it!

Not by much, either. I'm off to bed now, but I'll have a written report and some pics tomorrow.

Goodie, really looking forward to the report

 

[Ixt]

@Crowsfoot

Part 1 is up under AoS Battle Reports!

 

[Geko747]

40 temple guard is overkill, I use 10 and they normally always finish the battle. Slann cast mystic shield on them and skink priest with pristly trappings for a re-roll 3+ save and within 8" of a hero they get a further +1 to saving throws for an epic 2+ re-rollable save. coupled with chakax and then they just wreck face.

 

[Bainbow]

40 temple guard is overkill, I use 10 and they normally always finish the battle. Slann cast mystic shield on them and skink priest with pristly trappings for a re-roll 3+ save and within 8" of a hero they get a further +1 to saving throws for an epic 2+ re-rollable save. coupled with chakax and then they just wreck face.

Oh I definitely use 40 Temple Guard. Two units of 20, the Temple Guard are the kings of defensive gameplay now. That rerollable 2+ save is so OP, I don't even use it and stick to the unrerollable 3+ and even then entire units of Ogres on the charge can't break my line. Saurus are better on the attack, though, it's all about your playstyle.

 

[Gorgerak]

I had a unit of iron guts completely rip through my Unit of 25 temple guard in one turn they caused 19 wounds with a -2 rend - absoultley no way i could surivive that

 

[Bainbow]

I had a unit of iron guts completely rip through my Unit of 25 temple guard in one turn they caused 19 wounds with a -2 rend - absoultley no way i could surivive that

What save were they on?

 

[Bainbow]

I had a unit of iron guts completely rip through my Unit of 25 temple guard in one turn they caused 19 wounds with a -2 rend - absoultley no way i could surivive that

Also, and sorry for the double post, but Ironguts only rend at -1, which we're immune to.

 

[Gorgerak]

What save were they on?

3+ with mystic shield went to 5+ thanks to the rend, brutal